Re: Nandani Patrilinearity

From: Julian Lord <>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:59:07 +0200

Alex Ferguson :

> > > I still don't see the problem. Unless you're invisaging a
> > > 'Nandan/Nandan' marriage, for example.
> >
> > Among other possibilities ...
> Which is clearly mythically 'wrong' for Nandan As We Know Him. Doubtless
> there are minorities of minorities of minorities, but I think we might
> be best srved by working out what the 'common' pattern is, at least.

I certainly agree with this last sentiment ; and that's why I suggest some vague 'other possibilities' without clarifying any further.

However, the 'pure' Nandani clan (consisting of all-male bloodlines & inter-marriage) is too important a 'possibility' to be completely ignored IMO (even should it turn out that there's no such beast : I'd like to know *why* not).

> > > > So it would seem that at least one more class of marriage must exist
> > > > for the Orlanthi, to cater for the special needs of the Nandani.
> > >
> > > Why? High or low status, I don't see how their situation varies
> > > form that of women, fundamentally.
> >
> > It does : legally, they are men.
> That seems questionable. Certainly not for the purposes of marriage.

I disagree with you ; I don't think that it's self-evident one way or the other.

But it is certainly debatable ; or there'd be no point discussing it.

I do believe that the more amusing approach is to define them as 'men' from most POVs. Apart from the fact that such an approach leads to a more Greggly style of naff revisionism, I think that it's also the better way to illustrate the specificity of Nandan within the culture.

It also enriches the male/female dichotomy (well, I think so anyway) by introducing a grey zone (more likely a rainbow one, actually). And other anthropo-naffness too ...

> > In the 'Nandani Husband' model I suggested, the children belong
> > to the Nandani's clan. Which is very important, because if the
> > Nandani came from a typical patrilinear clan, he will transfer his
> > bloodline from his father to his sons, even though he himself is
> > legally a wife.
> But why does this make any more sense that any other model?

I'm not suggesting that it makes *more* sense ; I'm suggesting that such a model makes sense *as well*.

> It strikes me as being an exercise in combinatorics than
> anything motivated by conditions on the ground.

Sorry ; I live in Paris' gay quarter, and my suggestions are *certainly* motivated by daily observation of conditions on the ground. Not that I see many pregnant men during my daily walkabouts ; but I *do* see many couples who consider themselves to be two *men* ; not a man and a "woman".

And Hey! aren't exercises in combinatorics one of the *points* of sex ?

Nandan is certainly a special case among Orlanthi homosexuals ; but because he is a special case one shouldn't be too hasty when considering the legal bonds that might (or might not) tie two gay Orlanthi with the rest of society.

Julian Lord

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