RE: The Glorantha Digest V8 #137 from Gareth Martin on 2000-11-29 (Glorantha Digest Vol 08)

From: Gareth Martin <gamartin_at_nortelnetworks.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:03:54 -0000

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> Only according to the political propaganda of England and a few 
> Protestant Colonies one could mention. In other places, peasants are 
> free owners of the land, and the backbone of society (Ancient Rome being >

the best example of this : and the main character of Gladiator being the > best hero of peasant origin in recent memory).

I think thats a bit of an exageration - the agricultural backbone of Rome as the citizen farmer was more ideology than reality: the dominance of public agricultural land, illegaly, by the noble families, debt bondage and inflation all drove major social instabilities in Rome, regardless of the nominal status of the Roman peasant. This noble occupation of common land, and the massive scale importation of grain for distribution, rather relegated the peasant to an existance not wholly unlike the peasant of the middle ages. Thre proportion of free owners of the land in Rome was tiny, and concentrated in the upper strata, as in any imperial state.

> Their heroics lie, of course, in the "kicking the crap out of their 
> enemies" (as Ttrotsky puts it) department, apart from being just in 
> governing the bandit camp, and of course in being polite.

Go Trotsky.

> Nick Brooke replies, on another thread:
> >If you want to stage Caesar's crossing of the Rhine, just 
> say it's Sea 
> >Season and the river is in flood... :-)
> 
> Now there is another sort of hero, the Lunar Engineer-General!
> Or perhaps this is an old idea, the Building Wall Battle has 
> always sounded 
> a bit like Julius Caesar vs. Gnaeus Pompey at Dyrrachium!

Well yeah, that was the sort of thing I want to do - a resisted crossing. But on further inspection, there does not seem much precedent for arcchitectural or engineering expertise in the empire - no architect or builder gods, no mention of the marching camp-fort typical of Rome, no mention of army engineers. So know I'm not so sure that the Lunar empire has the necessary capacity for this sort of operation. Does anyone know if there is much precedent for field engineering by the Lunar military, or any such magics? If not, would there be room, for this in the existing statements about the Lunars, and can another godcult be shoehorned in?

> "The Carving of Tarsh" etc. is reprinted in Wyrms Footprints. Fairly 
> similar
> stuff is in King of Sartar, but lacks the excellent Dan Barker illo of
> Hon-Eel at the bedroom door (well worth the price of admission).

Problem is that I'm not willing to purchase books that are likely to be re-printed soon.

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> Only according to the political propaganda of =
England and a few 
 > Protestant Colonies one could mention. In other =
places, peasants are 
 > free owners of the land, and the backbone of =
society (Ancient Rome being > the best example of this : and the = main character of Gladiator being the > best hero of peasant origin = in recent memory).

I think thats a bit of an exageration - the =

agricultural backbone of Rome as the citizen farmer was more ideology =
than reality: the dominance of public agricultural land, illegaly, by =
the noble families, debt bondage and inflation all drove major social =

instabilities in Rome, regardless of the nominal status of the Roman = peasant.  This noble occupation of common land, and the massive = scale importation of grain for distribution, rather relegated the = peasant to an existance not wholly unlike the peasant of the middle = ages.  Thre proportion of free owners of the land in Rome was = tiny,  and concentrated in the upper strata, as in any imperial = state.

> Their heroics lie, of course, in the =
"kicking the crap out of their 
 > enemies" (as Ttrotsky puts it) department, =
apart from being just in 
 > governing the bandit camp, and of course in =
being polite.


Go Trotsky.  


> Nick Brooke replies, on another thread:
 > >If you want to stage Caesar's crossing of =
the Rhine, just 
 > say it's Sea 
 > >Season and the river is in flood... =
:-)
 > 
 > Now there is another sort of hero, the Lunar =
Engineer-General!
 > Or perhaps this is an old idea, the Building =
Wall Battle has 
 > always sounded 
 > a bit like Julius Caesar vs. Gnaeus Pompey at =
Dyrrachium!


Well yeah, that was the sort of thing I want to do - =
a resisted crossing.  But on further inspection, there does not = seem much precedent for arcchitectural or engineering expertise in the = empire - no architect or builder gods, no mention of the marching = camp-fort typical of Rome, no mention of army engineers.  So know = I'm not so sure that the Lunar empire has the necessary capacity for = this sort of operation.  Does anyone know if there is much = precedent for field engineering by the Lunar military, or any such = magics?  If not, would there be room, for this in the existing = statements about the Lunars, and can another godcult be shoehorned = in?

> "The Carving of Tarsh" etc. is =
reprinted in Wyrms Footprints. Fairly 
 > similar
 > stuff is in King of Sartar, but lacks the =
excellent Dan Barker illo of
 > Hon-Eel at the bedroom door (well worth the =
price of admission).


Problem is that I'm not willing to purchase books =
that are likely to be re-printed soon.


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