Peter Larsen:
> Clearly, the more organized Lunar troops will have an advantage in options
> - -- the Heortlings seem limited to recreate the swirling confusion of the
> Storm Age (powerful, but not always the best choice). If Jane Williams is
> correct, Kallyr could have brought this idea to Sartar, allowing the
> Heortlings more varied mythical battle resources.
I love the idea, but it wasn't mine. At least, I don't think so. Kallyr improved her knowledge of tactics between 1613 and 1625 considerably (starting from zero, some might say), but that was mainly by following Broyan around AFAIK. And he's a Heortling. Her link with Polaris *may* have helped, but I really can't see her taking Polaris tactics and expecting Orlanthi troops to use them. The differences are just too great. If you can see a way of doing it, please tell me: I'd love to be convinced of this one!
> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Topi_Pitk=E4nen?= <topi.pitkanen_at_helsinki.fi>
Pardon?
> - -Topi
Oh. Right.
> But let me begin with a related question: are there male followers of
> Vinga? Or more to the point, is the all in "all followers of Vinga are
> women" an orlanthi all of 85%? Are there a minority of a minority of
> redheaded lads?
Errmm... good question.
> My main question:
> What are the reasons and effects of male-exclusion in cults of glorantha?
In most cases of gender-specific cults that I know of, one of the main "aims" of the cult is to do with fertility/potency. Frex, Ernalda has a lot to do with giving birth: her priestesses have to have done this. No doubt TR will finally give us the sub-cult of Orlanth that's "Orlanth the very potent, father of all", and that'll be male-only.
Not that I can think of very many gender-specific cults in Glorantha, actually. Gender-biased, yes. Presumably Nandan is purely male? Voria? Voriof? Are there female Barntar worshippers, I wonder? In terms of getting earth magic, they're better off with Ernalda, no doubt. But earth magic is so linked to fertility magic, perhaps it has to be done differently?
My first thought about male Vingans is "why?" On a purely mechanistic level, what would they get for it? Why not "just" join Orlanth Adventurous? But of course religion isn't just a deal with a god: I give sacrifice, you give spells. It's a question of devotion, belief, and so on. Like in Greek mythology, the son of Theseus whose name I forget, who thought Artemis was wonderful. This being the goddess whose usual interaction with males of any species is to kill them.
Vinga's fighting techniques would be designed on the assumption that most opponents are bigger and stronger than you: but that goes for some men, too. And Vinga tends to protect women and children against men: but men can do this, too.
So, if Vinga really is 100% female-only, why is she turning male worship away?
I think I know: but it goes back to a discussion I had with Harald Smith a few years back, and he asked me not to make his ideas public until he had a chance to publish. But that was a very long time ago now: Dec '98, from the look of the mail messages: Harald, are you still there? Can we lift the security blanket yet?
To tentatively drop a few hints: Vinga is one specialist aspect of a much older and much greater Earth Goddess, who has been mostly asleep since round about the Storm Age. Various aspects of her have been incarnated/awakened at times (some of them very recent), usually picking up a few of her talents but never all of them. Vinga got the red hair, the ability to defend her lands (but *not* to attack outside them), and some apparently irrelevant links with Horses and with control of her fertility. Other incarnations have picked up other talents. Yes, I do know who she is, and who they are, and no, I'm not saying without Harald's permission.
The original Goddess is so totally tied in with female fertility that I don't believe for one moment that men could ever worship her. Vinga, the specialist/minor version, keeps some links to control of fertility: probably enough to also make male worship at least very difficult, if not impossible. (Would someone with some medical knowledge like to comment on the effect of a man taking a female contraceptive pill?)
OTOH, maybe Harald's ideas, much though I like them, have no place in the new Glorantha and the new Vinga. He left them unpublished even in note form for two years, which is really far too long and a great shame, so it wouldn't surprise me if the world has moved on and diverged to the point where all this no longer fits. But, it says in HW that Vinga is female-only. And this is the only explanation I've ever heard.
Jane Williams jane_at_williams.nildram.co.uk http://www.williams.nildram.co.uk/gloranth/index.shtml
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