Marko Perala:
> > Here comes the question: Is there
> > a non-chaotic form of illumination?
>
>I didn't mean with this one the creatures, who are illuminated, but the
>ideals of the philosophy itself. The whole point in illumination
>is to see law and chaos as two parts of the whole like in Cults of
>terror. This is what Nysalor/Gbaji taught.
Arkati illumination looks like a good candidate for a non-chaotic form of illumination in this view.
> > I know Rashoran wanted
> > balance between non-chaotic
> > gods and nations.
>
>Well I don't KNOW it, but it was writen somewhere. Rashoran was born
>from the light that Xiola Umbar saw and began to helped different
>races and tribes to understand each other so the could work together
>against chaotics of Greater darkness. That is the balance between
>non-chaotics against chaos.
>
> > Nysalor changed it to balance
> > between chaotics and non-
> > chaotics.
>
>I remember reading from Dorastor: Land of Doom that Osentalka was
>made from the pieces of dead Rashoran. The illumination of Nysalor/Gbaji
>states that illuminates have knowledge of law and chaos being basically
>same. This is not what Rashoran taught. He
>teached understanding and cooperation, but chaos was never mentioned
>in that context, only non-chaotics.
Did Nysalor really teach balance between law and chaos? This is probably implicit in his teachings - but not explicitly stated in front of his Yelmie worshippers of Peloria, for sure. I use to believe Nysalor was a weak point for Gbaji to come back into the world and begin to twist the Bright God's message. Fortunately Arkat killed him, though he had to kill Nysalor too... Unless Nysalor and Gbaji killed each other in a terrible inner struggle that nobody on Glorantha would have understood until Arkat showed up to play the part of the other guy.
Now with regard to illumination i think the explicit insight of balance between law and chaos originated when the Illuminates had to justify the Vampire Kings of Tanisor's abuses. This teaching may or may not have helped Gbaji to take control of Nysalor's control levers, or may or may not have resulted from the latter.
Nysalor and Gbaji died together but they were so much intermingled that they were no more but one. When Teelo Estara resurrected Nysalor she also resurrected Gbaji who cheated her in believing the Crimson Bat was alright. The Seven Mothers are innocent.
Hope this helps. (Though i don't dare re-reading myself)
Maybe the Rashoranic way somehow survived in the East as orthodox mysticism, a state of mind and spirit and body our basic theist finds hard to express in his own myths. I don't believe it myself.
> > If things are so, then what
> > about Arkat? He is said to be
> > an illuminate, but his hatred
> > to Gbaji would be rational if
> > he was a Rashoran illuminate
> > trying to eliminate chaotic
> > heretics.
I'm just keeping with my own course of thought so it may not answer the question well, but maybe Arkat originated in the only part of Nysalor that remained out of control for Gbaji. Thus he was the antithesis of all that Nysalor-Gbaji was (eventually a troll). Yet, being himself integral part of the Perfect One, he sought to destroy the corrupt bit. Himself was illuminated of course. I think i could derive an opinion wrt Arkati illumination from the above, but i won't have the time now cuz the library is closing.
Jerome
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