> ------------------------------
> From: gd_at_stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
> >From: "Posselt, Theo (US - Foster City)" <tposselt_at_dc.com>
>
> >I hadn't thought about that analogy before. So Rinliddi ==
> Mecca? And by
> >this parallel Glamour would be, I suppose, Damascus? It
> can't be Baghdad,
> Baghdad was a new city, founded by the Abbasid Caliph Abd al-Rahman in
> 763. It was never Persian, so could be a good match for Glamour. (By
That's a good point. How foolish of me, I realize Baghdad in Iraq, not Iran.
> I like this analogy, except that existing Gloranthan history presents
> the first Lunars as a motley crew of Dara Happan rebels and rogue
> Carmanians, putting together a convoluted and over-civilised
> conspiracy in the back room of a hotel - rather than a group of
> ascetic religious fanatics sweeping out of the wilderness onto
> civilisation like a desert storm...
>
True... however, Islam does present some interesting other analogies with the Lunar way. Islam bound together a group of people (the beduin) who previously had been kept separate by their fixation on local gods (like the Tripolis gods) and their rigid social order. And Islam was also founded by outcasts, essentially - Mohammamed was an orphan, as close to a non-entity that you could get in a tribal society.
> >I don't know enough history to follow this one. Wasn't Timur a Turk?
> >What's the difference between Seljuk Turkey and Ottoman Turkey?
<great explanation from Stephen deleted>
Thanks for the summary, that's very helpful.
> I can see loose parallels between this and the Lunar/Sheng situation;
> where I think it falls down is the link between the Seljuks and the
> pre-Sheng Lunar Empire: I can't see much similarity there, I'm
> afraid.
I agree. Terra, is there more we're not seeing?
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "TERRA INCOGNITA" <inarsus-ferilt-z_at_mrg.biglobe.ne.jp>
>
> >I seem to recall that Adept and I basically agreed on the following
> >parallels:
> >Lunar: Arabic
> >Carmanian: Persian/Iranian
> >Firespeech: Hebrew (possible replacement: Ancient egyptian?)
> >Pelandan: ancient greek
> >Dara Happan: Sumerian
> >Darjiinian: 'soft' sumerian
>
> I can switch Position of Pelandan and Dara Happan. (Then
> Firespeech becomes
> Sumerian, Dara Happan to Babylonian or...?)
>
> >An alternative concept would be:
> >Firespeech: Sumerian
> >Dara Happan: Hebrew
> >Darjiinian: Philistine/Phoenician/Canaanite
>
When we discussed this on HeroWars, someone made the suggestion that Sumerian was appropriate for Firespeech - the Ur-language, as it were (though I still think Egyptian is good). And he said (sorry, I forget who) that Sumerian was supplanted by semitic languages - hebrew, in my simplification - so that's where the 'alternate concept' comes from. This has a nice additional symmetry, btw: that Dara Happan gave rise to New Pelorian/Lunar, in the same way that proto-semitic/'Hebrew' gave rise to Arabic.
> >> Chinese Influence to Middle Asia:
> >> Sheng Seleris's Image is greatly influenced from the
> >> Photocopy of Fortunate
> >> Succession, but that Statuette is made in the period of Tang
> >> Dynasty as
> >> Ancient Virtuous God-Emperor Yao...Don't arrogantly dare
> to think you
> >> conceive aesthetic sense of Ancients...
> >>
>
> >I'm confused here as well... who is being arrogant, exactly?
>
> See Fortunate Succession p. 61 photo. Horrible! It is one of
> Staffordish
> Mischief.
Ok, I get it. Thanks.
> ------------------------------
> From: James Chapin <71022.1646_at_compuserve.com>
> By the way, given that most of the Lunar characters in the
> game so far have
> had Roman-inspired names, it does seeem a bit late to engage
> in renaming
> them all in Arabic.
>
Well, we really haven't have that many 'official' lunar names at all. Most of the latin ones, to my knowledge, come from Reaching Moon. So this could be gregged.
The official canonical sources seem to have a number of types, mostly not Latinate. For example, I don't own Fortunate Succession or GRoY, but from glancing through it it seemed most of the names were vaguely south/SW asian (sumerian, babylonian, indian). And the RQ modules were sort of all over the map (Jar-Eel, Sor-Eel, Fazzur, Julan - these seem as Persian or Arabic as they do Latinate).
Point of fact, the only uniquely latinate elements of cannonical glorantha seem to be:
* the senate * the military structure names * a few select names (Tatius)
But no doubt someone can quickly prove me wrong.
In any case, I'll happily rename them all in my glorantha.
> ------------------------------
> From: Mikko Rintasaari <rintasaa_at_mail.student.oulu.fi>
>
> I'm not even so fussy about the spesific languages. I'd just
> like to have
> some sort of consensus so we would each know from which
> languagebase to
> draw names from, for offiscial / semioffiscial stuff at least.
Well, I lean more towards fussiness than consensus on this one... I'd like to see the names have some coherence that players could pick up on, that don't involve us all learning new artificial languages. And I'd like the names and languages to correctly imply concepts in the characters names of what the cultures are like.
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Mark Galeotti" <Mark_at_galeotti.fsbusiness.co.uk>
> Well, I'm not sure whether they fit 'soft' sumerian or
> canaanite models, but
> here are the brief guidelines on Darjiinite names in the
> current draft for
> the first of the Imperial Lunar Handbooks:
>
<name information cut>
> Hope this is of some use,
>
> Mark
>
Well, I certainly think it's extremely useful, mostly because it implies that this sort of information will be given for most major cultures in the ILH. Thank god. As long as the names are internally consistent, and as long as most players will be able to look at the names and get a sense of what culture they come from, I'll be eternally grateful.
Theo
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