> > The God Learners believed in Makan, the One Mind and Hrestol's
> > Joy seems to be incompatible with this.
>I cannot say I understand it.
>[snipped Greg quote]
>I cannot say I understand all of Greg's statements, but Orthodox Malkioni
>stresses importance of both Malkion and Hrestol. And Abridged Version
>Abiding Book is still "Holy" Book for modern New Fronelan Hrestoli. Would
>you try to analyze my confused idea and put in order my brain?
There was another myth of the month (miscalled Malkioni Otherworld) that painted the relationship differently. But rather than retype that I'll give my understanding and let Greg make the necessary corrections (if he feels so inclined).
Firstly, I'll make the distinction between public worship of God and higher understandings of him. Public worship is what normal Malkioni do when they go to church (sing badly, sleep through the sermon etc). Higher understandings are what the devout Malkioni use to become closer to God and thus more powerful (although they don't think of it this way). Hrestol's Path of Knighthood is a Higher Understanding and perhaps its refinements established by Talor and Gerlant. Higher Understandings should be distinguished from Saints and Ideals* although discoverers of HUs can be saints or Ideals.
The entity that all Malkioni worship publicly has been since the writing of the Abiding Book, the Invisible God.
The Abiding Book also describes the way to know (or to become) a HU called Makan, the One Mind. The Malkioni unites his consciousness with Makan and becomes capable of answering any question with the benefit of God's omniscience (the answers given can differ from answerer to answerer and so the Jrusteli invented a Truth Contest to sort out which answer was more correct). Makan was the Highest HU of God that the God Learners knew of.
The God Learners produced a short version of the Abiding Book that only contained the way to know Makan. This is the Sharp Abiding Book. It is still used by both the Loskalmi and the Seshnegi although they impose strict conditions on who may practice it and when questions may be asked.
Kionvara, the Right Power, is described in the Malkioni Otherworld myth as being "a popular way to exploit foreigners" which is a bit odd since it was used at the very beginning to liberate rather than exploit. I think it's really a HU of God that the Jrusteli discovered (with Makan's aid) for their Crusaders to know so they could become better Soldiers for God. Perhaps the God Learners used it later on as a cheap way of creating garrison troops that could cow pagans with one hand tied behind their backs. In the God Learner scheme of things, Kionvara was an emanation from Makan.
The Zanbandan of the Inflamers is a form of Public Worship rather than a Higher Understanding. It might have been potent in that its worshippers were capable of better magic than ordinary Malkioni but it deviated from the Abiding Book and so was heretical.
As for Joy, Greg's put out numerous confusing signals in the glorantha: intro and elsewhere. As far as I can make out, Hrestol called down Joy from God that transformed portions of the Ideal Plane into being able to project magic onto the Mundane plane without the need to contact it. So instead of the Ideal Plane magics being only accessible through following the Ideals, Saints can project blessing and curses down to the ordinary Malkioni and their enemies.
IMO the God Learners with their understanding of Makan saw the Saints as worthy only of ordinary Malkioni as their understanding of God was better than any Saint. This hubris might have lead to their destruction as the Saints survived but the God Learners did not.
The strictest Rokari think that Makan is the highest version of God but have recognized that their toleration of Saints was an error. Saints in their opinion are a pollution of the Ideal plane created by "clever but flawed spells" Glorantha: Intro p52). They seek to reverse this pollution.
The Loskalmi worship Irensavel, the Hidden Mover. Originally it was publicly worshipped according to a liturgy created by Tomaris in the Dawn Age and also required moral action and behavior. This was suppressed when the God Learners bought the Abiding Book to Fronela but re-emerged as a HU when the God Learners were expelled.
Irensavel is so high that he is only contactable by Loskalmi wizards using Makan as an intermediary. As a result of this contact, they have issued a code of ethics and actions that must be followed by everyone to keep them in Irensavel's Good Book. The doctrine of Irensavel allows to the Loskalmi to use other means of knowing God, whether it be through the Saints, the Ideals or through Higher Understandings. Sorcery is incompatible with Irensavel's doctrines and so condemned.
*Ideals - what I think the Malkioni had before they had saints. Talar was an ideal ruler, Zzabur the Ideal Sorcerer. It's much difficult than Saintly magic although weaker versions of the Ideals (the Symbols?) are contactable on the spell plane.
End of The Glorantha Digest V8 #562
Powered by hypermail