>The EWF need not have been cynic as in deliberately doing
>things in a corrupt way to increase personal power. As you
>wrote above things started with "draconic revelation", where
>the Kralorelans have aeons of experience and actual dragons
>as teachers of the draconic way. The EWF leaders very well
>could have thought they were doing everything the right way
>to liberate everyone's inner dragon.
and Peter Metcalfe says:
>I think it's too much to call them cynical. They probably
>had honest reasons for their actions, it's just that we only
>have a distorted picture of them through Ingolf's Saga.
Both fair points and true as far as I know. On the other hand, it's clear that something went wrong with the EWF toward the end; a sort of moral rot set in. Part of this was probably due to misunderstandings of draconic teachings -- the EWF, after all, did not seem to produce too many complete successes (Obduren the Flyer is the only one I know for sure actually reached the ultimate goal of escape from the transient world), so I assume their draconic knowledge was flawed in some way compared to that of Kralorela. It's also possible the the EWF rulers were unable to disentangle themselves from human concerns -- they needed the society and political structure to maintain their progress, but paying attention to those worldly concerns prevented them from attending to the mystic advancement that was the theoretical purpose of the systems in the first place.
So, were the EWF leadership "cynical?" I suppose that depends on what you mean. Individually, I suspect that they were all over the map -- sincere mystics trying to do the best they could, ineffectual "reformers from the inside," career "leaders" more interested in the government than mystic insight, and entirely corrupt people. As a whole, however, it seems likely that the leadership of the EWF at some point stopped pursuing the Draconic Absolute and began to rule for its own sake. That's what I meant by cynical. Maybe there's a better word for it. What the Dragons thought, I have no idea. They seem to have killed the sincere and cynical pretty much equally.
Peter Metcalfe goes on to say:
>Peter Larsen:
>
>> I think the EWF was somewhat more complicated than this. The
>>EWF (or, rather, what would eventually be called the EWF) started
>>with some draconic revelations, probably best understood as mystic
>>insights. While these insights were new to Orlanthi society, I
>>suspect that there were plenty of draconic mystic/dragon worshipping
>>groups in Dragon Pass.
>
>I think the pre-EWF dragon worshipping groups were more propitiatory
>worship than anything else. There's no sign of human involvement
>in draconic mysteries before the EWF.
Probably, yes.
> > By the end, the EWF consisted of many groups:
>
>>I suspect that these "average Orlanthi" occasionally engaged
>>in rituals designed to empower the mystic upper classes/government,
>>but how this worked and how it would be described in a "4 worlds"
>>way, I don't know.
>
>Mystical entities can be worshipped (for example, see the Vithelan
>High Gods).
Nils is probably the person to answer this, but Vith refuses worship (How Vith Pacified the Antigods).
> >As
>>far as I can tell, the EWF and Kralorela differ quite a lot, not
>>least in their conception of what it means to "become a dragon."
>
>I don't think they differ and whatever the flaws of the EWF,
>I like to think it was far more subtle than they interpreted
>"becoming a dragon" literally and the Kralori didn't. There
>were differences in style between the two.
Until more evidence appears, I think we'll have to disagree on how distant the Kralori and EWF were. Obviously, they had many similarities, but I think there were substantial differences as well. I'll agree with you that the "damning" differences were probably a lot more subtle than I suggested (and possibly not clearly understandable to anyone except a fairly advanced draconic mystic), but I believe they were significant. Significant enough to prevent the Kralori from being eaten for a lot longer than the EWF managed.
Peter Larsen
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