>But the
>original poster was looking for reasons to allow, not disallow, the Pavis
>cult abroad.
So? My position is still that he can't.
>FWIW I note well the comparison made in canon between the worship of Pavis,
>the Red Goddess, and Sartar. They are all somewhat similar, a type of city
>cult which in the case of the Red Goddess and Sartar, grew into founder
>cults where the being worshipped has greater impact than just a single city.
No. The Red Goddess was never a city cult while Sartar always has been a kingdom cult.
>t's very possible and plausible that Pavis could do the same. I seem to
>recall Ian Thompson's Pavis material hinting quite openly that Pavis cult
>might end up attempting to recreate the Green Age, which would send Pavis
>down a similar path to the Red Goddess and Sartar.
Except that whatever will happen hasn't happened yet and so doesn't help the original poster.
>For this player, there are a number of good reasons why the cult might
>approve and how they might support him. Expanding the cult's power is an
>obvious one,
Except that Pavis never had any expansionistic designs in its golden age and most Pavisites would rather have the cult's power expanded in the Rubble first before it's directed on foreign missions.
> >>Unless there's a subcult of Pavis which lets you use your magic while
> >>traveling.
> >Such as? And why would Pavis be interested in such a cult?
>Such as... 'The Wyrm's Friends' subcult.
No Wyrm Friends around today and pan-Heortling nationalists would look askance at people claiming friendship with Wyrms.
>What might threaten Pavis? Well, there are trolls, nomads etc. And the
>Lunars want to 'marry' the Red Goddess to Pavis and add him to their growing
>pantheon.
How is a marriage proposition a threat?
>Can't a friendly local
>city god or minor god honour a player's connection with Pavis by granting
>magic?
Why doesn't the player simply join that cult instead?
>Yes the awakening took place at Shadow's Dance, but I was referring to when
>Pavis, not Flintnail, defeats Waha with the Faceless Statue which he awakens
>after studying how with the EWF dragon tutors, and which marches from
>Shadow's Dance at Pavis' command against the animal nomads of Prax.
The Faceless statue is still associated with Flintnail's cult, not Pavis's.
Pavis's cult is interested in the City for the same reason that Sartar's cult
is interested in roads and buildings. That they did other things while the
founders were still alive is interesting but outside the cult of Pavis as
God of
the City.
> >Since I've never talked about the physical city as being the limits of
> >Pavis's magic, the strawman does not convince.
>
>Ah, I see. I think you're mistaking a fleshman for a strawman though. I was
>referring to when you said:
>
> >But Pavis is _unable_ to provide magic beyond Pavis, which is
> >what is being argued about here.
>
>and
>
> > Still doesn't allow you to cast magic beyond Pavis's boundaries.
>
>and you did also just now say
>
> >You heroquest for your god and people. Heroquesting so you can do
> >magic beyond the city borders is excessively self-centred.
Free clue: Nowhere in those statements is there anything about the physical city. So you attacked a strawman.
>I assumed you meant Pavis is unable to provide magic beyond the physical
>city of Pavis.
You assumed wrongly.
>So, what did you mean when you said 'beyond Pavis' and
>'beyond Pavis' boundaries' and 'city borders'?
I left that question open because the issue was whether a Pavisite could adventure in Sartar which is outside the possible definitions of Pavis. And for all your regurgitation of Pavis's deeds, you've failed to mention the Pavis County.
> >I await with interest the evidence for Pavisite diplomats in foreign
> >places...
>Cyrilius Harmonius.
Who joined the Pavis Priesthood _after_ he returned with the Lunar Army and became a mason.
> Any Initiate or Champion of Pavis who stayed on the Cradle.
I asked for evidence, not supposition.
> >You heroquest for your god and people. Heroquesting so you can do
> >magic beyond the city borders is excessively self-centred.
>Excessively self-centred as it may be, this does not mean that they are
>impossible or not done. Someone else has already mentioned a few likely
>candidates.
And got them wrong.
>And as soon as the cult of Pavis wants to do it, it ceases to be
>excessively self-centred.
Fine. Let's completely ignore the point and purpose of the Pavis cult while we are at at.
>I find the evidence that Pavis *should* be limited to Pavis non-existent,
We are talking about the city cult and that is limited to the city borders.
--Peter Metcalfe
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