I think "appropriate" isn't really the word to use, but the rules do, so...
It's more like the spirit refuses to work for an "outsider". Granted, spirits in charms have less say in the matter than a Fetish or Spirit ally, but still. The outsider doesn't know the right way to ask for what he wants and doesn't appease the spirit with the right way of worship.
I *tend* to think that a practice/tradition charm is just an inert lump of stuff when in the hands of an "outsider". However, until Greg confirms or denies it, I won't go so far as to say it *is* so.
> > If you don't have a
> > relationship with the Spirit at the head of the
> > Practice/Tradition, then using spirits from that
> > Practice/Tradition is more like coercion or slavery than a
> > harmonious working relationship. The spirit might do what it
> > is told, but it will be cranky about it.
>
> Even if it's been introduced to you by someone it thinks of as a good
> friend?
I think so, yes. It would be like your best buddy asking you to help out his/her friend, whom you loathe. You might do it, but not happily. And if you were supposed to help them out every day, your friendship with your buddy might begin to suffer.
> > Common Magic comes from an otherworld being (Spirit, Essence,
> > Daimon) that happens to live in the Middle World (A Spirit of
> > a berry bush, an Essence of a rock, a Daimon of a stream).
> > Everyone has the ability to make or use a charm from a
> > Middle-world Spirit. The charms described in the Animism
> > chapter are made from Spirits
> > ripped/seduced/inveigled/kidnapped/invited
> > from the Spirit World, and require a practitioner (or shaman) to make.
>
> Ah, right, I hadn't realised the significance of the distinction.
It's something that has been clarified (just not bruited about) since the rules for common magic were written.
> > (Yeah, I know, common magic screws up more things than it
> > fixes, that horse was flogged to death long ago.)
>
> Well, it might be Common Magic's "Confuse Everyone" skill in use here,
> or my own "easily confused by rules" :)
Ask Nick ;-). I tend to agree that splitting Common magic up among talents, Charms, Feats and Spells was silly, and that there should be only one "Common Magic Ability" whatever it would be called. We wouldn't then have to clarify if we're talking about Common Magic Charms or "real" charms.
> > > OK, *IF* that's possible, and my theist has their fetish,
> > can they do
> > > that trick of releasing the spirit to use the entire
> > ability rating as
> > > a bonus? Could they do it if the shaman helped them?
> >
> > Fetish? or Charm? Two different mechanics.
>
> I didn't even realise you *could* do that with a Charm!
You can't. But you changed words from "Charm" to "Fetish", and they are most definitely *not* the same thing. The spirits in charms cannot be released.
> >It is only possible at the 30% worship level or above.
>
> But that I didn't know. Are you saying you can't have the relationship
> without being a 30%er, or that even if you've got the relationship, you
> can't use it that way? Sort of like having triple masteries in your
> "initiate of" ability but still not being able to cement feats?
Something like that, yes. To be a member of a practice requires the 30% level of commitment. From re-reading the rules on 136-137, it seems that only Practice spirits can be put in fetishes, not Tradition spirits. Either Tradition Spirits are too "primitive' (elemental? simple?) to become friends with a mortal; or their friendship still don't give "fetish" powers to their friend (pick one or make up your own rationalization).
> > I would let a theist hero to use the "release" function only
> > if he: A] is unconcentrated and B] worships a pantheon that
> > includes spirits (Kolat in the Storm pantheon, frex) and C]
> > is a Practitioner (30%er) of the proper practice (and D] made
> > friends with the spirit as detailed on HQ 137).
>
> OK, fair enough. But his local friendly shaman could perhaps do the
> release for him, allowing him to get the benefits? Or, come to think of
> it, the shaman could release one of his *own* fetishes and allow the
> theist friend to get the benefits?
I don't think you *can* release the fetishes of another person. The "release" function is based a personal relationship between the holder and the spirit in the fetish.
For a person asking a spirit to help someone else instead himself, of I'd check on the crankiness of the spirit - something like the Follower Reluctance table. Maybe a Kolat spirit would be "Cranky 17" if asked to help a communal member of the Storm tribe, and "Cranky 20W" if asked to help a Sorcerer. Or just "Friendly" to the Owner, "Neutral" to others in the owner's religion, and "Hostile" if asked to aid a "complete outsider".
> I suppose in theory you *could* be an initiate of Orlanth and a
> practitioner of Kolat? Doesn't help me enormously, but it's a
> theoretical possibility?
Yep - as long as you're not concentrated. But there would be social penalties for being a wierdo, not to mention the time commitment... A Kolat/Thunderous combo would make the most sense.
> > So, the answer to your questions is "probably not".
>
> At least, I suspect a mere 10W in "rationalise the impossible" is going
> to come under severe strain. OK, I'll rethink. Thanks for the
> clarifications.
Of course, "YGWV" and "Yes, but..." are invokable in this instance. I'd let a player hero break the rules, just not every Tormakt, Derek and Harev. If a Praxian male NPC whips out a "Save the Children" fetish or casts a spell, I'd pay much more attention to him - he's a rulesbreaker and so *probably* a special NPC. Normal Animists don't have fetishes from another practice or spells, but Heroes (both Player and NPC) *do*.
RR
C'est par mon ordre et pour le bien de l'Etat que le porteur du pr�sent a
fait ce qu'il a fait.
- Richelieu
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