You still have a spectrum of "baselines" to chose from. The current way is to specify that a religion is Theist, Animist or Sorcerous, and claim that no other magic is used. We know this is false, but it comes down to a case-by-case examination of the particular religion you're interested in.
> Ah, but the animist part of the tradition does have tradition spirits
> likely? When it comes down to it, there's really no difference between a
> practice spirit in a charm and a tradition spirit in a charm, except for
the
> fact that spiritists are supposed to get the five tradition charms. But,
> from what you're saying here, the character is mechanically and magically
> "entitled" to these charms, they're just not likely to get them because of
> social reasons.
"Mechanically" entitled by the rules, yes. Magically entitled? possibly not - all Animist religions are not the same. And "five" is just a convenient number for writing rules. The *social* rules of a particular culture might dictate none, one, five, or "as many as your family can give you".
BTW, note how neither the Grazers nor the Praxians have "Tradition Spirits" listed, and they are the best known animist societies...
> > >Almost more
> > > importantly, do they know each others myths?
> >
> >Yes - as much as any communal member knows myths. (Remember that one of
the
> >Heortling 28 Holy days, Good Winds Day, is dedicated to Kolat). They know
> >that Kolat is a Son of Umath, so brother to Orlanth. They know that he is
a
> >spirit, not a god (and thus, "kinda wierd, you know", but he's at the
same
> >level of wierdness as, say, Heler from the enemy Water tribe or Elmal
from
> >the enemy Fire tribe). He fought the Monster Shaman Karjaken, and saved
the
> >Storm tribe from defeat at the hands of Spirits, etc. But they certainly
> >have no knowledge of "cult secret information", just like they have no
clue
> >about what goes on in Humakt's Hall, or the Weaving Chamber, or any other
> >"inner ceremonies".
>
> Of course. Just what a 17 in "Know Myths" will getcha.
Nope, just what "public knowledge" will get you. it doesn't matter if you have 5W5 in "Know Myths of the Storm Pantheon", you still won't know the innermost secrets of "Humakt Myths", because they are secrets of the cult, and [mafioso]cults have ways of dealing with folks that tell their secrets [/mafioso].
> > > Generally, when a mix occurs, is there a full "tree" for each sort of
> >magic,
> > > or do the odd branches spread out from a single basic worship?
> >
> >I don't think we can get *too* general here, and have to look at each
> >religion as it comes up.
>
> No doubt. But I'm looking for a guideline for when these things have not
> been specified as to how to apply them. That is, we know that there are
> these Kolating folks that are nominally in the Heortling religion. The
> question becomes what, if any, impact does that have on the Heortling
> character? And we've discovered that it means a few things at least...
Wanna know a secret? Don't tell anyone. Shhh.
I make it up. Yep, just make up whatever feels "right". Then Greg and/or Steve looks over the stuff, and we wrangle a bit over the final form, and sometimes I get vetoed and have to make up something else, but that's the big secret of all game writing.
The guideline is: Don't contradict something already in print unless it's necessary. We know the Heortlings don't have sorcerers. So making up Sorcerous orders in Heortling society is a no-no. We know that they only two animist practices are Kolat and Sedredosa, so adding more is a no-no. etc. What we don't know, we get to make up. How does the Teshnan religion work? I dunno, I haven't seen much in print, and I haven't been bothered to make it up.
> But most important is the question of what the basic religion keyword
> represents in terms of abilities for the starting character. That is, does
> it give you the ability to call on gods for divine aid, or 5 tradition
> spirits? That's key. My point is saying "Baseline Theist" means that
unless
> the player says otherwise, the assumption is that the "Worshipper of Storm
> Pantheon" religion keyword that comes with the Heortling keyword allows
> praying for divine aid, and not 5 tradition charms. As opposed to some
other
> religon which might be mixed otherwise, and be "Baseline Wizardry"
allowing
> blessings from the local liturgist.
If it's one of the 10 sample homelands or some other published material, then you have the baselines. If you're making it up, then you're making it up. *You* get to decide what a starting character gets to start with. Maybe he gets charms, maybe some stand-alone feats, maybe common magic - it's up to you.
> >Sure, at least as long as you don't go all 30%er (or 60%er) and get tied
> >down to a particular entity.
>
> Are you sure about that?
>
> If it's allowed in theory for a communal worshipper Heortling to have
> Kolating tradition spirits (however unusual), then why couldn't an
initiate
> of Destor do the same? Concentration would, of course, preclude this as
> would any sort of keyword that required concentration. But why 30%ing?
Yes, it is possible for an unconcentrated Initiate to also worship an animist (or sorcerous) entity. But 30% is a big drag on your time - it's more hours in a week than you put in at work (assuming you have a 9-5 or similar job, etc). Most people have gods that merge with their occupation, so that their 30% is counted as part of their job, with some extra time spent in church/prayer/rituals/whatever. To worship another being will cut deeper into your "free time".
> But here's the thing (and I think what's really been bugging me all along
> about the whole mixing thing). If it's not possible for an initiate or
> similar to get animist magic, then what's the impediment against
> concentration? The touted line for why one might not concentrate is so
that
> you maintain your ability to spread out to the other realms of magic. But
if
> it's turns out that that only means that you can't take any common magic
> outside of your selected realm, if you're already precluded from taking
any
> abilities at all outside of your realm, then that's almost no limitation
at
> all. Why not instead just have one set of costs, and just say that people
at
> higher than the intro levels just had to take all their common magic from
> the "right" realm?
Well, your whole premise is wrong: It is *possible* to use magics from two (or even three) Otherworlds, but the actual drag on your time gets increasingly severe and complex. Not to mention getting the entities involved to agree to your time-sharing worship. Yes, you can do it; no, it's not a really good idea.
Also, Concentration is the exception, not the rule for Gloranthans. Most Gloranthans don't get above the "Communal" level of worhip. Concentration is *much* more likely among Player Heroes, who can't be considered "bog-standard" Gloranthans.
RR
C'est par mon ordre et pour le bien de l'Etat que le porteur du pr�sent a
fait ce qu'il a fait.
- Richelieu
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