> From: "Andrew Solovay" <asolovay_at_...>
starts off the questioning on
> Subject: Turning ceremonies into heroquests?
> The Greg write:
>>
>> I am perplexed by this confusion. Ceremonies can not be run as a
>> heroquest. Ceremonies (like all rituals) are similiar in that they
>> invoke the Otherworld, but there is not travel to the Otherworld
>> in a ceremony.
>
> I guess my assumption was that many or most of these ceremonial
> rituals are, on some level, re-enactments of things that happened in
> the Godtime.
YEs, that is so.
> That is, when you're performing the "Arming of Orlanth"
> ritual, you are re-enacting a mythic event when the various gods of
> the Storm Tribe armed Orlanth for battle; when you perform
> the "summons of evil" ceremony, you're recalling a mythic event when
> Orlanth forced his enemies to heed a summons for battle.
Correct.
> And *if* the ceremony is re-enacting a mythic event, then (I assumed)
> instead of just performing the ceremony, you could re-enact the myth
> more directly, by heroquesting it--either as a practice quest, or by
> going to the Other Side. Risks and rewards would thus be greater.
Remember that ALL worship is a form of HeroQuesting, in that it is a
reenactment
of a mythic event. But in the myth of the Arming, Orlanth didn't go anywhere.
In the Summons, he didn't go anywhere. These are deeds.
> Does this idea make any sense?
Yes, I understand. But the difference is in the movement, and that these are essentially specific deeds.
> From: "Jane Williams" <janewilliams20_at_...>
continues
>> It is a ceremony to invoke the powers of the Otherworld to be
>> alerted to the quest, and to come to it and do their parts.
>
> And that's for practice quests, right? (That bit of context seemed to
> have been snipped before I got here). If it was a HeroPlane quest, it
> would be to take the participants to the Otherworld, not vice versa?
Yes.
>> > Who can lead these ceremonies?
>>
>> A godar or priest who knows the rites.
>
> That's abstracted in rules terms by what - your "initiate of <deity>"
> ability?
Hmmm, don't have the book handly, so I cop out by saying it is whatever
skill is
used to lead worship.
>> > I notice that if you
>> > do *not* provide the opposition, opposition will be
>> > "sucked in" to fill the gap, as it were.
>>
>> And, in fact, sometimes they will be drawn in even if you DO
> provide an opponent. Such is the danger of HeroQuesting.
>
> True at all levels? (Well, if you're on the GodPlane, you're facing
> Gods, no substitution possible).
True at all levels.
HeroQuesting is NOT easy, and it is NOT predictable. Even the most well-known
HQ, performed by the clan multiple times, will have surprising results.
> I suppose if the question of who makes the best opponent is being
> effectively ruled by Arachne Solara, Goddess of Plot, she may decide
> that your idea of who's most appropriate isn't hers. And a Sword of
> Humakt facing a trolkin is not appropriate... or if you've provided
> an Issaries trader to be Orlanth, and unknown to you there's a Wind
> Lord in the next valley...
Such could be the cause of the surprises.
>> AND one of the most dangerous aspects is that your enemies will
> also be
>> alerted that you are activating the magic
>
> Would this be by mundane spying, or would there be some
> magical "notification"? If it was the PCs who were the enemy being
> alerted to it, how would you describe it to them?
Magical. "I had a terrible dream last night that Elena was going to go find a
super poison to destroy our river! It felt just like I was in a
ceremony...Hey!
Get me my companions!!"
> My guess:
>> > The feel I have for it is that
>> > you're sort of calling the Other Side to you, rather
>> > than going to it. You become a weak spot between the
>> > planes, for the duration of the quest. Or something
>> > like that.
>
> Greg:
>> Your ceremony invokes an "overlap" or an "awakening" of the magical
> powers.
>
> That looks like agreement and added precision of statement - was it?
Yes, agreement and added precision.
>> This shows one of the possible surprises: not just enemies, but also
>> friends or help.
>
> Hmm, good point. And again, I suppose you could use that from either
> VP - as the questor getting help, or the friend finding themselves
> involved, as Biturian did here.
Sure.
>> The Summons of Evil is not a quest, but a ceremony.
>
> Er....
>
> so it's still a ceremony, but not one to start a quest, at any level?
Not to my knowledge. You summon the evil, it comes to you.
> So if a ceremony to start a HeroPlane quest takes you to the other
> side, and a ceremony to start a practice quest makes the Other Side
> sit up and take notice (overlap, awakening, etc), what does this
> ceremony do? Makes the Other Side to certain very specific things,
> like scanning round for Foes, and mundanely moving them to your
> physical location?
They will move by themselves of course, possibly magically enhanced. There is time to do this, since the Summons takes a fairly long time to prepare and start before ythe foes show up.
> Hmm, teleportation is Difficult Magic. And there's a multiple target
> modifier. I can see why you get a lot of community support for this.
Get? I'd say "need."
>> I am perplexed by this confusion. Ceremonies can not be run as a
>> heroquest. Ceremonies (like all rituals) are similiar in that they
>> invoke the Otherworld, but there is not travel to the Otherworld in a
> ceremony.
>
> "Ceremonies (like all rituals)" - this implies that you're
> seeing "ceremony" as a sub-set of "ritual", not two words for the
> same thing?
I generally use them interchangably. Such is not entirely correct: you can ritually cook a meal, for instance, without invoking ceremony. But they are generally synonymous.
YGWV
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