Hi there
(I have marked ### against the line to which this comment refers)
This is where your problem lies. As GM in HeroQuest we are looking at the
story flow in order to decide the resistance of an obstacle. It's nothing to
do with how difficult it might be to throw a knife over 20 yards or how
different it would be to shoot a bow over the same distance. The resistance
a story obstacle presents is entirely due to it's function *at this stage*
in the ongoing story. This is why we have the pass-fail cycle recommended to
us.
So, to fix your example:
player: how far is the guard?
narrator has kept account of the successes of the group and notes that this
time the ebb and flow of the story demands a hard resistance.
>says< what are you thinking?
player: I want to throw my knife at him.
narrator: >narrating the situation to fit the resistance - very important<
he is well within your knife throwing range but his patrol path takes him
behind the trellis and decorative vines where only his legs are revealed.
Your throw is either partially occluded or clear only for a short space of
time.
player: okay I pull my bow, the arrows will go through the trellis more
easily
narrator: yes your bow skill is more suitable for this task, you may have a
bonus of +3
This doesn't use stretches but then your example doesn't either. Apologies,
I haven't read the rest of the thread but your question appears stand-alone
:)
Incidentally, since it seems to come up a bit: it's the description of the
situation that gives the players an idea of what sort of magnitude of
obstacle their characters are up against. This is also what they remember
when they encounter similar obstacles in the future. Don't fall into the
trap of thinking that, since the resistance was a certain value in a similar
earlier contest, it has to be remain consistent. For one thing, no two
situations are exactly the same but, moreover, we are trying to tell
interesting stories, not simulate. It's all about the narration - which is
based on what is good for the story - the resistance is decided before the
narration and the narration is based on it.
If the story's development would benefit from the resistance being "nearly
impossible" to beat in your latest contest and you or the players remember
that something similar happened earlier with much lower resistance then you
need to make sure your narration of the circumstances reflects the "nearly
impossible".
I really hope this helps and am sorry it got quite long. It's quite
challenging to make it succinct.
Matthew
From: HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of roadsgoeveron
Sent: 16 February 2010 15:14
To: HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: stretches and credibility checks - anyone
else having difficulty?
Hi!
Out of curiosity, what if it is the reverse:
Player 1: How far is guard?
GM: What are you thinking?
Player 1: I want to throw my knife at him.
### GM: (Hmmm, I don't want this to be too easy, so I'll call it a hard
resistance).
GM: He's about 20 paces away, a difficult knife throw, but not impossible.
Player 2: Okay, I pull out my bow, which makes it much easier, right?
GM: (Darn, time to fudge some dice rolls again . . .).
Thanks,
David.
- In HeroQuest-rules_at_ <mailto:HeroQuest-rules%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, Ashley Munday <aescleal_at_...> wrote:
>
> Your example is missing out two fundamental questions:
>
> - What's the character trying to do?
> - How is he or she trying to do it?
>
> First bit of advice, don't paint yourself into a narrative corner, try:
>
> Player 1: "How far away is the guard?"
> GM: "Why, what are you thinking of doing?"
>
> Basically chuck it back at the player. Make the player tell you what they
want to do and how. The how (i.e. what ability you use) is as important as
the what as it gives you a nice narrative handle to set difficulties from:
>
> Player 1: "Er, I want to hit him with my bow and knock him out in one
shot."
> GM: "What ability do you want to use?"
> Player 1: "Not sure what's relevant, 'warrior' I guess."
> GM: "Okay, it looks like a hard shot, it's a bit towards the upper end of
your comfortable range, and it's getting dark."
>
> And if another player sticks their oar in:
>
> Player 2: "Can I throw my knife at him?"
> GM: "For what purpose?"
> Player 2: "Help him (nods at player 1)"
> GM: "Well as it's a hard shot for a trained bow user it's going to be
nearly impossible for you to augment him."
> Player 2: "How about my spear? I've got a 'Mile throw Javellin' feat, does
that help?"
> GM: "Cool, that's an easy augment."
>
> It's all about being true to whatever genre you're playing in. Would you
believe it if it happened in a work of fiction based on that genre? So
Leonidas can use his "homoerotic spear technique" augmented by his
"threatening loincloth" to rout a Persian Army (by overcoming their leader's
"I look cool in bondage gear") in a game based on "The 300." In the context
of the fiction Leonidas and his fellow cliched Spartans are expected to be
able to do that. In a historical Greek campaign there's not a chance - if
the phlanx broke to allow Aussie Gerald to start leaping about like a
demented Nureyev thrusting his manly spear into people he wouldn't last that
long.
>
> One final trick is to let the players into the pass/fail cycle, tell them
what the contest difficulty is and have them tell you why there's that
difficulty level. It's a good way of getting them engaged and immersed in
the game world:
>
> Player 1: "I want to catch him before he gets away..."
> GM: "As everything's going your way, this is going to be nearly
impossible, care to tell me why?"
> Player 2: "This is New York so it's got to be St. Patrick's day parade
getting in the way, every film I've watched in the last month has a sodding
St. Patrick's day parade in it, loads of pissed up idiots in green hats
destroying their livers and getting in the way."
>
> Last thing, really last this time. This technique can work for GMless
games. For a more "Prime Time Adventures" feel for your Heroquest games try
this:
>
> - To gain the goal the characters have to get through 8 contests.
> - Players take it in turn to frame contests/define obstances for their
characters to overcome.
> - The pass/fail cycle determines the difficulty of the contests.
> - The player on the left of the player framing the contest narrates why
the difficulty is what it is and makes the resistance roll.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ash
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Hal Bowman <hal_bowman1_at_...>
> To: HeroQuest-rules_at_ <mailto:HeroQuest-rules%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, 15 February, 2010 18:20:03
> Subject: Re: stretches and credibility checks - anyone
else having difficulty?
>
> Jeff. I get the point of HQ being literary - the rule book even says that
trying for simulation won't work. I'm just telling you my players will make
it hard on me. Now I'm finished moaning.
>
> Player 1: "How far away is the guard?"
> Hal: "Um...what do you want to know for?"
> Player: (with confused look) "I want to know if he is in range of my bow."
> Hal: (Consults Pass-Fail chart, because he has no idea about bows) "It is
pretty far, probably a Hard shot"
> Player 1 : "OK."
> Player 2: "I want to throw my knife at him. How hard would that be?"
> Hal: "Um...too far, it doesn't pass the credibilty test?" (Starts digging
around for another rule book, because he doesn't like where this is going.)
> Player 2: "How about my spear, instead?"
> Hal: "Um...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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