Hi Ash,
I'm not talking about Specific Ability bonuses - I'm clear on that. I'm talking about Broad Ability *penalties*, which is a different thing entirely.
However, I think I'm getting closer to an answer in the rules-as-written. So, if my PC#1 has Air Rune 20, he can use that broad ability to fly, at an ability of 20. However, if PC#2 has the breakout ability Fly +1 and an Air Rune also of 20, PC#2 can fly at 1W, but PC#1 can now only fly at 14, taking the broad ability penalty - that's the niche protection within a party which the HQ2 rules are talking about on p51.
So, likewise, even though a "Weaponthane" occupational keyword is "less broad" than a clan keyword, it's still a broad ability. So, if PC#1 has Weaponthane 20, and PC#2 has Clan 20, and they're both trying to work out an outsider's clan or tribal membership from, say, his fighting style, PC#1's Weaponthane would be operating at 20, and PC#2's Clan would be operating at 17 (20 -3). And, if PC#3 happened to have a specific ability like "Identify Fighting Style 20", then PC#3 would be at 20, PC#1 at (say) 17, and PC#2 at 14.
An interesting one would be how the Harmony Rune "keyword", Healer Occupational Keyword, and "Heal Hurt" specific ability all interact when trying to heal a Hurt. I guess it's similar to the above, although I'm not sure which I'd judge as less broad, the Harmony Rune or the Healer keyword... :-)
I appreciate this is all eyeballed and judged case-by-case, and that there's no codification of these interrelationships - I'm just trying to judge the score at which PCs would use the abilities included in their Occupational Keywords if they don't have them as break-out abilities - and I'm guessing the answer is, they'd use them at full score, unless another PC has a more tightly defined equivalent specific ability which should be niche-protected.
Cheers, :-)
Sarah
>
> Hi Sarah,
>
> The first thing to consider with the whole specific ability bonus thing is the last sentence of the section on specific ability bonuses: "If you can’t make an easy snap judgment, the modifier is 0."
>
> (Typo's not mine for once, it's in the original text)
>
> If you have to think for a long time or look at character sheets or your notes just say "sod it" and not apply anything. Don't make the mistake a lot of people do of trying to have a ready cooked taxonomy of which abilities are more specific than others, it all depends on context. So a Lysang might be a better pig farmer than an Antorling but the Antorling makes better cider even though they use the same ability ("member of <clan>") to do it.
>
> The other thing to do is always name what the resistance is you, as a GM, are rolling against in a contest. So when your characters are trying to climb Kero Fin they're up against the mountain's "effing tall mountain" ability with a target number of whatever resistance you assign. I know the rules talk about "abstract resistances" but there's no such thing. Whoever wrote that didn't follow the first rule of Heroquest ("abilities are anything that can be used to resolve a conflict.") and all abilities have names so you know what they can be used for.
>
> Personally I usually ignore the whole specific ability bonus thing unless there's something staring me in the face I can't ignore such as two player characters about to have a conflict and one's using something far more specific.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ash
>
> --- On Mon, 7/11/11, SARAH <sarah.newton5_at_...> wrote:
>
> > From: SARAH <sarah.newton5_at_...>
> > Subject: Gloranthan HQ2 - Broadness of Occupational Keywords
> > To: HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Monday, 7 November, 2011, 9:01
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been treating runic affinities in my Gloranthan HQ2
> > game as broad abilities, as per the Kingdom of Sartar book;
> > so, if they're rolling against a default resistance, they
> > take a broad ability penalty. However, I'm a bit unsure
> > about how broad *Occupational* keywords are. The Sartar book
> > suggests Clan Keywords are "broader" than Occupational ones,
> > which is fine: someone using the Weaponthane occupational
> > keyword to attack someone using Member of the Hiording Clan
> > keyword would get a bonus (+3?).
> >
> > But how about someone using Weaponthane against a default
> > resistance? Would you consider the Weaponthane occupational
> > keyword to be a broad ability then, or would you allow a
> > character to roll at his full ability? Is an occupational
> > keyword still a broad ability, just "less broad" than runes
> > and clan keywords?
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> >
> >
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