Everything I've said about bonuses works equally well for penalties. I should have said "specific ability modifiers" (to me the subsection is badly named). In both cases you have to work out which of a set of abilities is least specialised/general and then apply a bonus/penalty to the ones that are more specialised/general.
The advice at the end of the section - "If you can’t make an easy snap judgment, the modifier is 0." - is really important. If you take too long thinking about what deserves a modifier (caveat: In my experience of playing with loads of different people at cons and my regular gaming groups) your game to grinds to a halt. So if you have to spend any time considering the question "which is more specialised/generalised - Healer occupation keyword/harmony rune?" - then the modifier is zero.
Cheers,
Ash
> From: SARAH <sarah.newton5_at_...>
> Subject: [HeroQuest-rules] Re: Gloranthan HQ2 - Broadness of Occupational Keywords
> To: HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, 7 November, 2011, 12:58
> Hi Ash,
>
> I'm not talking about Specific Ability bonuses - I'm clear
> on that. I'm talking about Broad Ability *penalties*, which
> is a different thing entirely.
>
> However, I think I'm getting closer to an answer in the
> rules-as-written. So, if my PC#1 has Air Rune 20, he can use
> that broad ability to fly, at an ability of 20. However, if
> PC#2 has the breakout ability Fly +1 and an Air Rune also of
> 20, PC#2 can fly at 1W, but PC#1 can now only fly at 14,
> taking the broad ability penalty - that's the niche
> protection within a party which the HQ2 rules are talking
> about on p51.
>
> So, likewise, even though a "Weaponthane" occupational
> keyword is "less broad" than a clan keyword, it's still a
> broad ability. So, if PC#1 has Weaponthane 20, and PC#2 has
> Clan 20, and they're both trying to work out an outsider's
> clan or tribal membership from, say, his fighting style,
> PC#1's Weaponthane would be operating at 20, and PC#2's Clan
> would be operating at 17 (20 -3). And, if PC#3 happened to
> have a specific ability like "Identify Fighting Style 20",
> then PC#3 would be at 20, PC#1 at (say) 17, and PC#2 at 14.
>
> An interesting one would be how the Harmony Rune "keyword",
> Healer Occupational Keyword, and "Heal Hurt" specific
> ability all interact when trying to heal a Hurt. I guess
> it's similar to the above, although I'm not sure which I'd
> judge as less broad, the Harmony Rune or the Healer
> keyword... :-)
>
> I appreciate this is all eyeballed and judged case-by-case,
> and that there's no codification of these interrelationships
> - I'm just trying to judge the score at which PCs would use
> the abilities included in their Occupational Keywords if
> they don't have them as break-out abilities - and I'm
> guessing the answer is, they'd use them at full score,
> unless another PC has a more tightly defined equivalent
> specific ability which should be niche-protected.
>
> Cheers, :-)
>
> Sarah
>
>
> --- In HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com,
> Ashley Munday <aescleal_at_...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Sarah,
> >
> > The first thing to consider with the whole specific
> ability bonus thing is the last sentence of the section on
> specific ability bonuses: "If you can’t make an easy
> snap judgment, the modifier is 0."
> >
> > (Typo's not mine for once, it's in the original text)
> >
> > If you have to think for a long time or look at
> character sheets or your notes just say "sod it" and not
> apply anything. Don't make the mistake a lot of people do of
> trying to have a ready cooked taxonomy of which abilities
> are more specific than others, it all depends on context. So
> a Lysang might be a better pig farmer than an Antorling but
> the Antorling makes better cider even though they use the
> same ability ("member of <clan>") to do it.
> >
> > The other thing to do is always name what the
> resistance is you, as a GM, are rolling against in a
> contest. So when your characters are trying to climb Kero
> Fin they're up against the mountain's "effing tall mountain"
> ability with a target number of whatever resistance you
> assign. I know the rules talk about "abstract resistances"
> but there's no such thing. Whoever wrote that didn't follow
> the first rule of Heroquest ("abilities are anything that
> can be used to resolve a conflict.") and all abilities have
> names so you know what they can be used for.
> >
> > Personally I usually ignore the whole specific ability
> bonus thing unless there's something staring me in the face
> I can't ignore such as two player characters about to have a
> conflict and one's using something far more specific.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ash
> >
> > --- On Mon, 7/11/11, SARAH <sarah.newton5_at_...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: SARAH <sarah.newton5_at_...>
> > > Subject: Gloranthan HQ2 -
> Broadness of Occupational Keywords
> > > To: HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Monday, 7 November, 2011, 9:01
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I've been treating runic affinities in my
> Gloranthan HQ2
> > > game as broad abilities, as per the Kingdom of
> Sartar book;
> > > so, if they're rolling against a default
> resistance, they
> > > take a broad ability penalty. However, I'm a bit
> unsure
> > > about how broad *Occupational* keywords are. The
> Sartar book
> > > suggests Clan Keywords are "broader" than
> Occupational ones,
> > > which is fine: someone using the Weaponthane
> occupational
> > > keyword to attack someone using Member of the
> Hiording Clan
> > > keyword would get a bonus (+3?).
> > >
> > > But how about someone using Weaponthane against a
> default
> > > resistance? Would you consider the Weaponthane
> occupational
> > > keyword to be a broad ability then, or would you
> allow a
> > > character to roll at his full ability? Is an
> occupational
> > > keyword still a broad ability, just "less broad"
> than runes
> > > and clan keywords?
> > >
> > > Cheers!
> > >
> > > Sarah
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > To Post a message, send it
> to:Â Â Â HeroQuest-rules_at_...
> > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> HeroQuest-rules-unsubscribe_at_...
> > >
> > > For assistance, contact the list ownerYahoo!
> Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > > Â Â HeroQuest-rules-fullfeatured_at_yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to: HeroQuest-rules_at_...
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: HeroQuest-rules-unsubscribe_at_yahooGroups.com
>
> For assistance, contact the list ownerYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> HeroQuest-rules-fullfeatured_at_yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Powered by hypermail