> first mail on this ML, I'm not even sure it's the correct one...
IMO yes - this is as much rules as it is Glorantha.
> I've some questions about a potential Hero Cult for Belintar,
Godking of the
> Holy Country.
I've started a write-up for a Kethaelan hero band (Pharaonic Revivalists) consisting of people who want to bring the Pharaoh back. There, I meant to use Belintar as a divine resource - or rather his numerous minions on the heroplane equivalent of the Holy Country.
> My campaign takes place in 1616 ST, in Kethaela and the Pharaoh is
about to...
> disappear. I proposed a Godking Hero Cult during PC creation and two
of my
> players accepted it, so I developped some things, but I still have
more
> questions than answers :-)
Welcome to the club.
> As most of the six parts of Kethaela are theist, I mostly thought
about it from
> a theistic POV
That's the way to go for Belintar. For the sorcerous citizens of the Holy Country I have them use "Belintar's Book" as a grimoire (much the way Ethilrists "History of my Black Horse Troop" has become a grimoire for the Atroxi). Misapplied worship, much like the Aeolians' other saints as well.
> but my first question would be : is it possible for a powerful
> enough hero to have hero cults from different kind of magic users ?
(Belintar
> is not even dead yet, but I don't know if that's an absolute
prerequisite to be
> worshipped)
The Pharaoh definitely receives sacrifice and worship while alive, and for some time after his death as well. He has changed many rites around the Choralinthor Bay to include his invocation - this was part of the reasons why so many Heortlings and Esrolians migrated north in the early 14th century.
> ie in kethaela : theistic worship from Esrolia, Caladraland, Heort
but more
> animist from the few converted Uz in the Shadow Plateau and even
maybe a
> sorcerous book for aeolians or Godforgoti (by the way, I'm not quite
sure what
> kind of magic they have in this region, so consider this another
question :-) )
God Forgot is sorcerous, yes. IMO they ought to have no saints at all, but only school founders. They claim to follow Brithini ways, after all.
IMO Belintar succeeded to include his worship as a subcult of the main religion in all the theist sixths. I tend to regard his relation to the trolls as propitiatory theist worship - Argan Argar appears as theist deity of the Kitori and a few darkness-friendly Heortling tribes or clans. Thunder Rebels gives another name for the dark husband of Ernalda (Dojor the Black), but also says "and more".
> I consider that Belintar is quite an exceptionnal being, so his cult
shouldn't
> be restricted to the more normal 'orlanthi hero cult' described in
the rules.
Belintar is a demigod in his own right already when he swims up at Sindpaper Island.
> Anyway, I told my players that it was mostly a 'political' cult,
with initiates
> acting as agents for the good of the Holy Country (and the blessed
Godking)
> from time to time : explaining laws, settling matters, acting more
or less a small
> ambassadors (inside the HC, not outside).
That's the aspect which the officials of the Sixth could access. There is another aspect as Master of Luck and Death - popularly a Humakti subcult or hero cult for duelists in the Holy Country, and of course the survivors (second winners) of the Tournaments of the Masters of Luck and Death who are sort of heroes of Belintar.
> So, for the time being, I use the following :
> GodKing/Holy Country Affinity
> [Feats : Understand Kethaelan People, Voice of the Pharaoh, Union of
the Six,
> Gift of Citizenship, Sense Godking]
> No secret for now (anyway, I don't need it, the PCs will never
obtain it)
> (and of course, Mythology of Belintar, etc.)
For the secret, I'd use his magical bridge which connects the City of Wonders with the main holy site in each of the Sixths (Tarpit in Shadow Plateau, Stormwalk Mountain in Heortland, Casino Town in God Forgot (should be Clanking City in hexmap geography), High Temple in Caladraland, Ernalda or Necropolis in Esrolia, and Seapolis below the waves in the Rightarm Isles).
Although a mystic counter (refute death) might work, too.
Among his known personal feats are:
Master Luck (when he broke the bank in Casino Town)
Avoid Death/Return from the Dead (can also be performed on others, as
for King Andrin)
Summon Silver Age Hero
Raise Island/Raise Wall (probably the same magic)
Assume Body of Hero (clunky, but how to say that he takes over the
body of the winners of the Tournaments of the Masters of Luck and
Death).
In classical RQ his runes would have been Mastery, Luck and Death. Your feats above all stem from the Mastery Rune, and that would probably be his affinity to give to worshippers.
More useful to his worshippers (especially after his disappearance) would be mastery over his daimon (spirit, saint) servants that I'm fairly sure he must have had while ruling the Holy Country.
Bryan Thexton:
> Sounds like the basis for a great campaign!
I agree. ;-)
> Two thoughts here: I suspect that, strictly speaking, the proper
cult
> of a hero will be of the same nature as the hero him or herself. So
> if he is fundamentally theist, his cult will be properly theist.
True. Now Belintar was a demigod already at the start of his career in Kethaela in 1313. I'm not so sure that all the rules which are fine for ordinary mortal heroes like e.g. Sartar or Gorangi Vak apply to him.
> Which is not to say that there can't be spirit and sorcerous sides
to
> it. Either they could have mis-applied worship (which would help
> keep the theist part of the cult dominant), or there could be
related
> but fundamentally distinct spirit and sorcerous cults.
> In the latter
> case those cults could follow heroes of the appropriate tradition
who
> were early supporters of Belintar, or they could be older hero cults
> that he bent to his purposes.
I think the latter would be the case. After all, that's what he did to the year king worship in Esrolia, too.
> Actually, I suppose you could even have both cases. Mostly
political
> spirit and sorcerous cults that give mis-applied worship to Belintar
> (providing little direct benefit but letting people show their
> support for him) as well as more useful but more obscure hero cults
> that are only open to those who have proven themselves trusted
agents
> (letting him co-opt certain potential threats by offering them
access
> to secret magic).
Also, he has taken over the bodies and probably knowledge of a long series of winners of the Tournaments of the Masters of Luck and Death. I'd be surprised if these did not include sorcerous or animist heroes.
> Heck, the same situation could even apply to the
> theistic hero cult.
I'm not so sure it's just a hero cult. Living gods / demigods appear to be a special case.
> Personally I like this option because I always
> viewed the guy as having wheels within wheels within wheel with his
> plans.
I always thought that Belintar was of the "The Old World is Over, but we can save the best parts of it" philosophy, three centuries ahead of the other players in the Hero Wars. He was instrumental in ending the Closing (setting Dormal on his course). He sent Sartar north to organize Dragon Pass.
Jeff Kyer:
> A simple hero-cult wouldn't have such a wide array of powers.
> However, there could be serveral subcults/herocults which have
these,
> each using a different form of worship for the deity/hero being
> worshippped.
A bit like the three Vingkot subcults in Thunder Rebels?
IMO there are five distinct forms in which the Pharaoh is worshipped, one for each Sixth minus God Forgot which gives materialist tribute instead, syphoned off from Casino Town (probably including magical energies).
> But now that he's gone, I don't know if his cult is
> providing _anyone_ with anything. Looks like, since he's gone, the
> worshippers are getting nothing for their worship and are falling
away
> from the time and expense of it....
Returns diminish. Which is a dilemma for my hero band - part of their activity is to keep the local Pharaonic rites active. They remain attractive for heroquesters because they know rituals to enter the magical Holy Country visited in the Tournaments of the Masters of Luck and Death. I envision them to ally with one of the Argraths around 1628...
>> GodKing/Holy Country Affinity
>> [Feats : Understand Kethaelan People, Voice of the Pharaoh, Union
of the Six,
>> Gift of Citizenship, Sense Godking]
> Nothing involving peace, eh? =)
Peace is not one of his strengths, really. I don't think that Heortland was the only sixth to experience a long period of internal struggles after his takeover.
> Herocults don't get secrets, IIRC. Though, of course, HEROFORM
Pharaoh
> is the probable secret -- but its better described as in
'Participate
> in Contest of Luck and Death'
The real secret in this is to achieve an existence on the Other Side, which has great similarity to Great Orlanth's "Be Air" in removing the character from play. Mere participation can't be the secret - I don't think you have to be a devotee to enter. Rather the opposite - you have to have an otherside identity different from just the Pharaoh, ideally an identification with one of the population groups of the Holy Country. How else could heroic members of the House of Sartar have participated in 1600?
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