>I was thinking of something similar, in which the
>depth of religious involvement of the community was
>factored in, based on their level of initiation...
I can see this as useful at some levels, but when you are dealing with larger bodies (clans rather than cults), the distinction is less important and the support figures would require recalculation for *every* deity being worshipped because the relationship of many potential supporters will change based on the deity invoked. My aim is a simpler method for handling groups of varying size on the fly.
>1x Marginal or Neutral Support from Lay Members
>2x Minor or Ordinary Support from Initiates
>4x Total or Major Support from Devotees
>8x Complete or Extraordinary Support from [Disciples]
But these numbers have nothing to do with the degrees of success, and thus do not factor at all into resolving tests or contests for the purpose of determining the level of support a hero receives from his or her community. Thus they are useless to me. Do you intend them to be specific bonuses, so 5 Devotees give a +20 in support? If so, your math is *way* off and something closer to the following would be more reasonable:
Communal: +1 per 50 supporters
Initiate: +1 per 25 supporters
Devotee: +1 per 10 supporters
Disciple: +1 per supporter
>Example: 150 Heortling initiates (x2) successfully
>Orated to (one bump up) = 600 supporters.
>
>Six Lightbringer Devotees = 6x8 = 48 supporters if
>keen, 6x4 = 24 supporters if so-so.
>
>Routine support from a Dara Happan temple with 500
>communal lay worshippers = 500 supporters.
Except I have no idea from your examples what *modifiers* affecct the hero. Knowing that 500 people-values support the hero is absolutely meaningless in game terms without the Community Support Table modifiers. Do you have some figures in mind? Using mine from above, without any bumps as you suggest, the numbers work out as:
150 Initiates: +6
Six Devotees: +1
500 Communal: +10
That still seems off to me, somehow, and non-intuitive besides. I think your tweak is broken or it will require some thoroughly wonky math to work. More than I want to get into, thanks.
>A suggestion: the number of "lay-member-equivalents"
>each supporter provides *also* equals the percentage
>of time they spend backing the heroquest...
An interesting idea... I like it, although I'd not be so worried about the time constraints, personally. I imagine most heroquests do not require that support be sustained indefinitely, and few communities would hold out hope for a quester's safe return after a season or so. A suggestion to add on to this: support dwindles one step toward neutral for every particular time interval which a quest (or other activities... community support can be gained for more than just heroquesting, IMO) goes beyond its expected duration.
Extraordinary Support wanes over time to Total Support, Total Support becomes Ordinary, and Ordinary Support becomes Neutrality. Likewise, Condemnation becomes Forbiddance, Forbiddance becomes Objection, and Objection becomes Neutrality. The interval would probably be a season for the Lightbringers' Quest, so a quester's Extraordinary support might fade entirely after four seasons had passed since his or her departure.
>Could developing this further result in something more
>elegant than the current clunky table?
The table works for me, given that the numbers are intuitive powers of two for the most part. I don't understand your objection to it.
Benedict Adamson wrote:
>A consensus on some general rules is useful. I suggest a
>good set of rules for determining the degree of support
>from a community meets the following criteria.
All very good suggestions, most of which I think I address at some point in my prior post. I would like to point out that community support need not be limited solely to magical aid for heroquesting. It can also provide aid in raising a barn (manpower), in prosecuting a lawsuit (manpower and expertise), in preparing for a trading mission to town (wealth, expertise and advice), and more. The resources of any group are more than merely magical.
Greg's "Epic" draft gives some (very) loose ideas on the types of household, bloodline, clan and tribal resources into which a hero may tap with varying success. To summarize, households provide advice and limited manpower; bloodlines provide advice, manpower and limited wealth; clans provide advice, manpower, wealth and limited expertise; tribes provide all four.
Here are some examples of results which "Epic" touches on, from best to worst, for various types of support:
Degrees of legal support: lawspeaker personally intervenes; lawspeaker acts as advisor only; lawspeaker refuses to advise the hero; lawspeaker initiates outlawry procedures against the hero.
Degrees of military support: entire clan military musters to assist; clan warband musters to assist; short-call only musters to assist; short-call volunteers allowed but not encouraged; clan musters in opposition to the hero.
Degrees of information support: expert accompanies the hero personally; expert acts only as advisor; expert refuses to advise the hero; expert actively misinforms the hero.
Degrees of healing support: major healing provided with no repayment expected; major healing provided with normal repayment expected; minor healing provided with no repayment expected; minor healing provided with normal repayment expected.
Degrees of magical support: holy person accompanies the hero personally; holy person teaches the hero specific magic or gifts the hero with item; holy person casts specific magic for the hero's benefit; holy person prays for the hero; holy person refuses to assist the hero; holy person summons agents of retribution against the hero.
-- Michael Richard Schwartz | Language is my playground, mschwartz_at_... | and words, its slides and Ann Arbor, Michigan USA | swingsets. -- yours truly
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