> I'm beginning to think that the narrow view of being tied to the
tula
> doesn't work in a number of ways. It would make sense if there were
> various gatherings for ceremonies and the Heortling equivalent of
> Agricultural & Pastoral shows. Still, if a sister is married to a
clan
> a fair distance away, I'm not sure how her bloodline would hear
much
> from her beyond the news of the births of her children, carried by
> travellers coming from that general direction. I'd like to be wrong
> about this, so how does it work? (If the Sartarite "all" is 85%, is
the
> Sartarite "most" 51%?)
I agree with you more than not.
I suspect that the rhetoric in Thunder Rebels may have been a little over the top. But do recall that even taken literally, the "orlanthi most" is actually 3/7 (~42%). I think that if you replace "tula" with "triabl lands" it would be somewhat more accurate, however. Because many people at least occasionally go to tribal temples, and Greg's recent words suggest that in many villages there are actually mixed clan inhabitants, plus almost every clan has some members who live in the city who's federation they belong too. Between triabl moots and tribal markets and tribal war band gatherings and tribal religious ceremonies, and mixed villages and visiting relatives in the cities, I would think that most people get off the tula at least a few times in their life.
But the cattle have to be tended, the fields weeded, and so on. And travel is always arduous and dangerous to some degree. And guesting with another clan creates an obligation to them. So I think that for most people travel wouldn't be frequent.
Thinking about human nature and all though, I'm almost positive that there is "religious" reason for a woman to go and visit her daughters children. Some myth about Asrelia and Barntar or something no doubt. No doubt there even is some ceremony involved...but also a chance to see how your daughter is doing and to see your grandkid. Hmmm, it could be a traditional part of moving on to the Asrelia & TKT cult, that you do a last "motherly" visit to your children (or a first "grandmotherly" visit).
> The reason for suggesting an "Esrolian" marriage is that that's the
only
> one of the listed options in which the child becomes part of the
> mother's clan.
>
> This is coming up in the more general context of trying to figure
out
> what Heortling women's lives are like. Think about divorce in
Heortling
> society. It's not a good thing, but it seems to be reasonably
> straightforward. Now imagine you're a woman, probably Ernaldan, and
the
> defining feature of your life's work is making a home in which to
raise
> children. You leave your support network to go through the ordeal
of
> the youngest wife. You bear a child to your husband's bloodline,
and
> gain some measure of acceptance. At any stage your husband could
decide
> to divorce you, and you'd be expected to return to your birth clan
and
> leave your children behind.
Yah, that doesn't sound right to me either. I suspect that as in modern society divorce is seldom as simple as all that. That just as marriages are negotiated, so are divorces. After all, one of you is essentially looking to get out of a contract. At a guess, whoever declares the divorce is less apt to keep all of the children.
Older children are more apt to be retained by the marriage clan, I
suspect (as they've put more resources into raising them). I've not
read anything dividing children into age groups for the Orlanthi, but
in much of western europe I think up to age 7 was a legal "infant",
while 8-14 was considered to be something more, with some limited
legal rights and responsibilities. With the orlanthi love of 7s, I
can see the same applying. In which case I would think 'infants' may
go with the mother more often than not, and 'children' staying with
the birth clan more often than not.
>
> This is not so much of an issue when things are going well, but I'm
sure
> you can see the potential for unpleasantness. What does the woman
have
> going for her that helps to counterbalance this?
>
> Political pressure from her birth clan is one thing. Support from
other
> women might be a factor, but might not: the other women in the clan
you
> married into will have their own agendas and their own clan causes
to
> advance. There's quite a lot of myth supportig the notion of happy
> marriages, but the reality doesn't alway match the archetypes of
Mom
> and apple pie.
Agreed! I suspect that birth clan pressure is not a negligible thing, however--at least so long as your birth and marriage clans are two that frequently marry into each other. After all, if your marriage clan won't negotiate reasonably, your birth clan is apt to get tough in marriage negoetiations. Doesn't help you directly, but it is an important factor. Yet another reason why marriage into a "strange" clan is discouraged--you are more vulnerable, since your birth clan can apply less pressure.
>
> Oh, there seems to have been some debate out there about which clan
a
> married woman belongs to. Has a consensus been reached? Who gets
her
> wergeld?
Surely her marriage clan! They are the ones who are losing her. Her birth clan already lost her, but have negotiated appropriately.
All just my opinions.
--Bryan
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