> This is emphatically not the Lunar situation. The
>Lunars are a theocracy, with their very own Goddess
>looking down on them wherever they go. They're also
>pantheistic, having no trouble accepting and absorbing
>other religions along the way. They're marrying their
>goddess to whomever will consent to it, and happy to
>do so. They demand respect for her, and that's why
>they're having such trouble with the Orlanthi, who
>refuse to share the Middle Air with this newish
>goddess.
>From a theological point of view they want Orlanth to submit
to the Red Goddess as ruler of the Middle Air - Hardly sharing.
I'm not sure the Lunars can be correctly described as a
theocracy, it isn't ruled by a priesthood but by an Emperor
who is also son of the goddess. Very Christian in concept
although eastern Christian rather than western.
Certainly the analogies with any RW situations fall down in detail but I was particularly using the Spanish example because of the conflict within the church and between the church and the military. No doubt there were similar conflicts elsewhere but it was particularly noticeable in Central America.
> In other places (Tarsh and Thrice Blessed come to
>mind), all or much of the population has happily
>accepted the Lunar Way, and deem themselves much
>better off because of it. Hon-eel and the Conquering
>Daughter have been very effective.
Apart from Silver Shadow (46%) actual Lunars are very much a minority, 12% in 1st Blessed is high. The ILH doesn't give a figure for the Lunar provinces but I don't see Tarsh having a greater proportion than the Lunar heartlands.
>> Even in the modern world very few complaints are
>>upheld against the soldiers of an occupying army and I
>>can't imagine the Lunars having a standard of justice
>>as good as the modern world.
>
> Actually, I can. There's no reason why their ethical
>philosophy can't be far in advance of their
>metallurgical technology. I'm not saying it is, and
>people being people, there's going to be many who
>can't conform to their own ideals. Check Christianity
>for a longstanding example.
Ethical philosphy follows from social structures, an Imperial structure isn't going to have the ethics of a modern western society - they just don't fit together. I agree even within their ethical values there will be many who fail to live up to those standards.
>> From other discussions about the Lunar leadership
>>competence seems optional, connections to the Emperor
>>and similar political considerations determine
>>appointments.
>
> Granted, and again, not dissimilar to ourselves. Yet
>merit can be recognised, and is encouraged in the
>Empire, just as it was in the British Empire.
Which bit of British Imperial history are you thinking of where merit was recognised over connections? I can think of plenty examples of the reverse.
>> The priorities seem to be suppress rebels, keep
>>order, collect taxes and convert the locals - very
>>much in that order.
>
> I would say that 1 and 2 are the aims of the
>military, while 3 and 4 are the aims of the civilian
>(frequently theocratic) bureaucracy. The civvies
>undoubtedly considers *their* aims to be primary in
>importance, because to them, peaceful co-existence and
>trade is the ultimate aim. To then, military
>occupation is a short-term necessity only. This also
>contributes to MGF, as each heirarchy will be trying
>to protect their own influence.
I don't think the Lunar bureaucracy is theocratic, certainly not Lunar theocratic. Most of it seems to be inherited from the Dara Happens, followers of Busarian not Irripi Ontor or Etyries. Like bureaucrats everywhere they are interested in making sure the paperwork is right and covering their backsides, not collecting taxes and certainly not converting barbarians.
There is certainly a conflict of at least three sides between the military, the tax collectors and the missionaries and even within those groups there are differences in emphasis.
> It also brings up the subject of the Lunar
>bureaucracy. It's probably not very efficient. Look
>at the example of the Red Dancer of Power. She's in
>charge of the economic welfare of the Empire, yet also
>head of the religious correctness brigade seeking out
>White Moonie heretics. There are times when (a) has
>to conflict with (b).
The Lunar bureaucracy certainly isn't efficent, bureaucracies rarely are and nothing else in the Empire is.
> Absolutely, but many Orlanthi require educating on
>this point. Part of the fun of starting with young,
>ignorant bigots is rubbing their noses in the fact
>that most Lunars are not Chaos-loving slime. To play
>them as repressive, monolithic hardheads is not only
>detrimental to the gaming opportunities in occupied
>lands, but contrary to the reality of the Lunar Empire
>as it has been developed so far.
Indeed, the ILH is very useful for ideas for non-standard Lunars.
-- Donald Oddy http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/
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