On 21 Sep 2004 at 21:28, jeffrichard68 wrote:
> Allow me to disagree somewhat. What we know about the Hendreiki is
> that freedom is at the center of their society. Some three
> centuries ago, King Andrin transformed the Hendreiki tribe into the
> Kingdom of Heortland, replacing clan chieftains with sheriffs,
> apportioning the kingdom into marches ruled by barons, and appointed
> earls to oversee the barons. However, from what we know, these
> royal officers do not form a true hereditary aristocracy. These
> officials are (or were) regarded as keepers of the Hendreiki freedom.
OK, the transformation of the Hendreiki tribe (Tribe or tribal confederation?) into the Kingdom of Heortland predates the Pharoah, right? (He does the whole Zombie Andrin thing, IIRC)
> That is not necessarily the same thing as a "top down style" - you
> still have clans, clan councils, and traditional Orlanthi life. Of
> the three tribes of the Heortland, three (the Volsaxi, the
> Jondalarings, and the Hurlantings) fall within the range of
> traditional Heortlings.
Unless there's a typo in there, you just said that all the tribes in Heortland fall within the range of traditional Heortlings, which doesn't seem right.
However, it did create something of
> a "overclass" dependent on royal patronage and not upon the local
> communities that did not traditionally exist in Heortling cultures.
Ok, but how far down the 4 regions of Heortland does this extend?
> I suspect that there are some strong similarities between the
> organization of the cities of Sartar and of Heortland.
I'd buy that, since they come from a similar root.
> The Esvulari are different, of course.
When and how did they become different? Do they not consider themselvs part of Heortland? Is it just the religion thing, influenced by the west? Before it all fell apart post Pharoah, who was king of Herotland and where did he rule and what did he believe? I have no problem with the fractured remains of the kingdom post Pharoah. The king dies, there's a civil war, Rikard decides he's not just a mercenary, but a reformer, and turns the kingdom into New Malkonwal. The north refuses, but then gets pasted by the Lunars and pinned in Whitewall. Rikard fights the Lunars and loses when he is betrayed. The Lunars stick Bandal Tigerbane in. But does he just rule Esvular? Does he rule all of Herotland or has that as a "kingdom" broken apart?
I can't untangle this at all, and looking over stuff online just seems to result in constant revisions (starting with the names, of course). While the politcal struggles of Herotland are NOT the point of my game, I really would like some sense of what the hell the situation was there and where it is going, since it will be important backdrop and at least one of my players is making a character from there.
> IIR, Karse is originally a Pelaskite settlement and is probably
> significantly different from places like Jansholm or Durengard.
Certainly the impression I've gotten. While sort of in the middle of Herotland, it's always been a bit apart, which is why it made a good place for people disagreeing with the current situation to flee there and receive independence under the Pharoah.
> However, I don't know how much of a Pelaskite identity exists there
> anymore, since it has been dominated by Heortlings for a very long
> time. Probably most folk in Karse are Heortlings. I really don't
> think the old Midkemia Carse product is terribly on-point though.
I happen to like the idea of it still being there, but probably not overly strong. I'd go with the sacred marriage theory that seems to be so prevelant in Glorantha. The first Baron marries the matriarch of the Pelaskites still there, perhaps the high priestess. Thus the lines are tied together for the founding of new Karse. So while the Herotling aspect gradually becomes more and more dominant, there is this sense of the older tradition lingering under the surface. If the population around Karse in the valley is primarily Pelaskite (with Herotlings controlling a bit further up the river valley) then it can be a bit of old simmering resentment, just because it's fun to have it there.
LC
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