Re: Karse, Heortland

From: jorganos <joe_at_...>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:54:34 -0000


Me:
>> Whatever the result of Andrin's reforms on the clan wyters was, 
>> these people remained theists mostly. They accepted over time 
>> feudal elements from Malkioni influences. (Early feudalism and 
>> organized barbarian tribes are more or less the same...)

Jeff Richard:
> Let's be careful about the use of the term "feudal". Heortland
does
> not have fiefs or feudal contracts. What it has is mounted
warriors
> with chainmail and spears - think Norman knights. However, these
> are thanes appointed by the sheriff (i.e. clan chieftain) and
> supported by the clan - and not feudal retainers.

Ok, I guess this is going digestwards. While I agree that there were no formal fiefs (probably neither in Esvular), we do have a pyramid of oaths of fealty. The land is owned by the clan and assigned by the clan leader. The clan leader speaks for the clan, the warriors swear fealty to him, and live either in his hall or (in special cases) in the hall of some of his thanes.

Drop the term clan, and you get a situation like in Loskalm.

A chieftain and his gesiths who start acting as legal witnesses at his side or even in his stead were the start of feudalism in Anglo-Saxon Britain (and possibly among less literate Germanic kingdoms, too).

> I personally like the idea of an itinerant High King who travels
> with his household and retainers - it goes well with the Larnsti
> theme. It also means that no one place is forced to constantly
feed
> the king, his household and his retainers, and allows the king much
> more direct contact with his people. I think that Orlanthi kings
> are probably far more itinerant than the literature suggests and
> that "royal seats" are largely ceremonial places and not
necessarily
> the year-round residence of the king and his household.

Good points. Reminds me of my old essay on taxes, which mentions this. http://glorantha.temppeli.org/digest/gd1/1997.03/0868.html

Still, I see Durengard as the castle where he sits out Dark Season, and where he (or at least his court, if we take the Larnsti "keep moving" requirement - lifted from early descriptions of the Kolat tradition, methinks - literally) will stop over, store treasures, guest the Pharaoh (on his circuit) etc.

Powered by hypermail