Re: Digest Number 269

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_...>
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 15:19:18 +1300

Martin Dick:

> > Look at the Sartar description on p153 Glorantha: Intro for the
> > origin and maintenance of the roads. They were magical in nature
> > and so Sartar could do without any centralized road-making
> > bureaucracy.

>I'll have a look tonight, but even if they are done magically,
>surely that implies a significant use of the area's magical
>resources and heaps of community support from the tribes of

The tribes worshipped Sartar because they got maintenance free roads and city walls. However because they worship him does not mean they will obey without question his heirs anymore than catholics (ancient and modern) obey the Pope.

And as for the "significant use" of magic, I think that only the people to worship Sartar were the rings of the cities and unconfederated tribes using the magics that had been gifted to them in the sacred time ceremonies. They then carried out the sacrifices to him on day 88, perhaps using about one KoDP checkbox's worth of magic on that day.

> > But [the Jonstown Library] is sustainable by the tribes that
> > make up the Jonstown confederation.

>This is exactly the point I'm making, the confederations of
>tribes have been actively working together for generations
>on things like the Library.

Only one tribal confederation supports the Jonstown Library. I think you are conflating the Cities (Tribal Confederations) and the Kingdom. The Cities existed before Sartar made Boldhome and they exist after Sartar has been conquered. The Kingdom united the Cities and the independent tribes. That has vanished, the Cities haven't.

>I don't believe that this can
>happen if the Princes of Sartar spent the 1500s just keeping
>the lid on inter-tribal and inter-clan warfare.

AFAIK it isn't the job of the princes to settle such matters. The chosen leaders of the tribes and cities settle such disputes, not some faraway prince in Boldhome. What the Prince is concerned with is public works and defense of the kingdom. By merely being, he does create an environment that encourages the peaceful settlement of disputes in that the leaders are less likely to choose violence.

>I'm not trying to say that Sartar turned the Dragon Pass Orlanthi
>into a regimented society akin to Prussia and Germany, I just think
>that too heavy emphasis on the differences between the clans
>and tribes downplays the commonalities they have and downplays
>the role of the Princes of Sartar and the belief that many
>Sartarites have in him and his heirs as the ruler of the nation
>of Sartar.

Well it is known that after Sartar was crushed, rivalries and feuds quickly flared and fighting was quite common. IMO if the belief in Sartar was as strong as you think, peace would have taken a lot longer to break down. Hence I'd place the loyalties of most Sartarites to the nation as a distant third behind clan and tribe (fourth if the cities are counted).

--Peter Metcalfe

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