Oaths (Was: raids vs raids, allies vs. allies)

From: Captain Button <button_at_...>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:19:37 -0600 (EST)

On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, Bryan Thexton wrote:

[ text sacrificed to Lankhor Mhy ]

> So.....a cattle raid, even one involving bloodshed, doesn't count as
> a raid for terms of magic or pleasing your thanes, but does count as
> a raid when it comes to breaking a peace treaty?
> And.....clans can perform cattle raids on clans that they are allied
> with, but clans cannot perform cattle raids against clans that are
> part of tribes that their tribe is allied with?

I had a problem somewhat like this regarding the minutia of Orlanthi law.

The Jenstali promised me tribute to leave them alone.

Then they raided me. I assumed the deal was off.

I raided them back.

I get an event about how they aren't coming through with the tribute, so I raided them again, and they were being plagued with spirits of retribution, as is only proper. They moved off their tula to the distant south.

They killed some of our horses, so I raided them again.

Then the ring starts whining about *us* being oathbreakers! WTF? And why hadn't they said anything before, or after one of the first two raids?

> Oh, and this is a situation where I will weasel out by going back to
> a saved version, on the theory that the clan would know if that raid
> was permitted or not, and I had no intention of breaking that treaty!

That's what I did too.

Lately I'm pondering what to do since I'm short of land but all my neighbors are my allies or in my tribe or both. If only that guy who used to whine about us having too many allies would turn up again...

The saga is below, with my comments added and apparently unrelated events deleted.


[ Previously, The Jenstali had quit my tribe, so I raided them and seized some of their land. ]

[ In other news, my tribe collapsed and we joined Colymer. ]

Nobles from the Jenstali clan warned us that they were starting a feud against us. We composed a poem portraying them as cruel villains. Orlkarth's stirring condemnation of their vileness was soon recited in other tulas in Dragon Pass. They knew that we were justified in our actions against the Jenstali.

We raided the Jenstali and eluded their patrols. Frithorf saw Intagarn fall in combat with enemy thanes and wanted revenge. He fought well that day, though not so well as some. Although we pressed them sorely, the Jenstali weren't willing to flee from their land. We took 5 Jenstali auxiliaries captive.

We were able to ransom the prisoners.

Dorasa the Holy of the Jenstali came to plead for peace and to offer us 25 cows as one-time tribute. The Jenstali agreed to our demand for yearly tribute of 17 cows. We swore to Humakt and to Ernalda to refrain from raiding the Jenstali for as long as they continued to pay tribute. Of course these oaths were binding on them as well.

We were raided by the Jenstali. The Jenstali clan burned 2 steads. Rastorlanth was wounded while facing the Jenstali charge. He rallied our warriors and attacked. Rastorlanth hacked about him in a spray of blood. But the Jenstali fought back hard and the battle went on. We were driven from the battlefield and looted. They burned 4 more steads.

[ They raided me after swearing not to, which I assumed released me from my oath. ]

We raided the Jenstali. We burned 3 steads before the Jenstali mustered enough warriors to force battle. As the battle began, Orlkarth felt bursting with magical power. He called upon Orlanth's powers, fighting as if he was one with the god. After we drove the Jenstali off the battlefield, we burned 7 more steads. We took 10 Jenstali auxiliaries captive.

We were able to ransom the prisoners.

The Jenstali didn't send the annual tribute they had promised.

[ Uh, what tribute? Why hadn't this whole tribute deal been written off when they broke it by raiding me? ]

We raided the Jenstali and eluded their patrols. Fedarkos realized that the enemy were being attacked by Orlanth's spirits of retribution, the impests, who must have meant to punish them for breaking Orlanth's sacred vows. He might have fought better if he had not lost part of a finger to a lucky enemy. We pressed them so sorely that the Jenstali gathered up everything they could and left their tula. We showed the Jenstali that we were not to be trifled with and they soon paid their tribute.

[ They are being punished for being filthy oathbreakers, as is only right. But again why are they still talking about tribute? ]


Someone killed some of our horses. We conducted a divination. The spirits of our ancestors said that this crime was committed by the Jenstali. The people were not surprised to hear this, for they were feuding with us. We attacked the Jenstali.

We raided the Jenstali and eluded their patrols. Frithorf fought well, at first, and attracted the attacks of several enemy warriors. He fought well that day, though not so well as some. We drove the Jenstali from the battlefield, striking them down as they fled. We took 5 Jenstali auxiliaries captive. The Jenstali were expecting our attack, so we knew they had slain our horses. The people were glad that we had struck against our treacherous foes.

We were able to ransom the prisoners.

Why have all our sacrifices gone wrong this week? Because we broke our oaths to the gods and raided the Jenstali when we'd sworn to leave them in peace.

[ I'm obligated to not raid even when they ignore their obligation to not raid? ]

All of the other clans in our tribe suffered bad harvests.

Orlkarth attempted the heroquest of Orlanth and Aroka. Orlkarth became as one with Orlanth. Ernalda told him that his nephew, Daga, was causing a drought and harming the people. Orlanth said that he would drive off or kill Daga. Orlkarth fought against Daga. Orlkarth parried Daga's blows, and withdrew when it was safe. Orlkarth gathered weapons, then other enemies attacked him. Trolls wounded Orlkarth, driving him from the realm of the gods.

Once is happenstance.
Twice is coincidence.
Three times is enemy action.
BOMB MARS NOW!                     [ button_at_... ]

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