RE: Re: PEOPLE: Broyan and the Larnsti

From: Jeff Richard <richj_at_...>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:42:19 -0800

> IMO the Larnsti predare Hendreik and that Hendreik's achievement was
> to create a Kingdom under their aegis. Gollan's infamous stead is
> "thousands of years old" (DP:LoT p29) indicating a pre-Hendreik
> (and for the record, that phrase was inserted in my description).

Gollan's infamous stead is "thousands of years old" - which for me means that it appeared in the First or Second Age. It isn't on the Dawn Age map. There were 200 people at Seriasdora at the Dawn and 200 at old Karse. Greg and I discussed the Heortland plateau (and Whitewall) and there wasn't anyone there. Just wilderness. Again I ask, why is it so important to you that the Larnsti predate Hendreik, remain really powerful, and so on? What's the story?  

> >The Larnsti worship Larnsti through Hendreik (although
> >there have been a few Larnsti who managed to independently contact
> >Larnste - Sartar comes to mind).
> No. Hendreik is a hero. Post-dawn Heroes (non-Lunars) only provide
> a feat (c.f. the examples in Storm Tribe). Greater power is only
> to theists through divine sources. I've already cited the example of
> Alakoring providing a feat by himself and also one or two subcults.
> is an apparent consequence of the Great Compromise that sets Gods
> and Mortals apart.

Having game tested about a score of incarnations of hero wars and hero quest, I think this is just a game mechanic.  

> Secondly if the Larnsti did worship Larnste through Hendreik then
> they would be called Hendreiki, not Larnsti.

Nah, that's the tribe formed by Hendreik.  

> No. He appointed the nobles and sheriffs to wield Hendreik's
> Freedom.

What does that mean to you? To me, that is the kernel of a cool story idea and the beginning of a downward spiral for Hendreik's Freedom.  

> The Larnsti have other powers which King Andrin has left unchanged.

Sure. But they aren't as important as they were.

> I disagree strongly. The Freedom remained intact (although somewhat
> damaged in the north by King Hadrad's revolt) until the civil war.
It was
> the presence of a New King that cared nothing for archaic rituals
> that allowed the Kingdom to be conquered.

Don't you think that Hendreik's Freedom must have been weakened if a foreign adventurer could seize power and end the Liberty of the Hendreiki? I know what the authors of Federalist Papers would have said!

> The Heortlanders were not nearly conquered. All that is said is
> that Fazzur won a clear victory over them and besieged the city
> of Karse.

Sure, but Fazzur knew that he could have taken them. They were an empty edifice and Fazzur knew that if he had just been given the ok, he could have taken it down.  

> > The unreconciled Andrinic Heortlanders and their Malkioni
> >counterparts aren't Hendreiki anymore. At least in the sense of
> >protected by (and worshipping) Hendreik the Free.
> I disagree strongly. If Andrin was dumping Hendreik et al., I do
> feel a lot of people would have noticed and complained.

All I am saying is that he changed how Hendreik was worshipped and how Hendreik's Freedom was being wielded. Ultimately that weakened Hendreik and removed his protection from the Kingdom. But it happened slowly and without malice.  

> I still think that the Pharoah would make one of the criteria
> to the Pharaoh. It seems extraordinarily myopic to allow a foreign
> access to the city once he has conquered sufficient territory

Maybe. But it makes a good story. And when the Pharoah created his Holy Country there were no potential foreign conquerors. And maybe the magic worked that way.   

> > Exactly. And in Broyan's traditionalist view (shared by a
> >of Heortlending Orlanthi IMO), the Andrini cease to be the Hendriki
> >after 1617.
> They don't. They are still Hendreiki even if they are leaderless.

Depends on what you mean by Hendreiki, doesn't it.  

> > That's not really much of an argument.:) And DP:LoT does
> > explicitly say any of that.
> So it's all very well for you to rely on implicit suggestions but I
> to rely on explicit statements?

No, I get to rely on good story ideas and MGF. You have to rely on explicit statements. :)

> > Yep. And there is only 25 of them. Besides I disagree
that is
> >extraordinarily weak - it is the standard for the leader of a
> So? It is still weak for a magical brotherhood which is what I said.

Are the Eaglebrowns a magical brotherhood? How about the Sword Brothers? I am pretty sure they are. We'll make the Larnsti more powerful than.  


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