Re: A few Sartar questions

From: Greg Stafford <Greg_at_2MLYvxuXxVxJm8VoqmHDddUPhbmKkf490hGJ3P2ukRcGWYOGPUeFYlFj7vhWTGkI9yq8kbf>
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:23:18 -0800

YGWV valkoharja wrote:

> > > I've been reading 'History of the Heortling Peoples'.
> > > It seems that Sartar was the enemy of Belintar,
> > > and that he at least
> > > expected his family to follow this line.
> [Greg]
> > "Enemy" almost seems too harsh for me. Sartar was a hard-core
> > traditionalist, and for that reason did not agree with Belintar.
> >
> > Can you cite a reference on that for me?
> History of the Heortling Peoples p.87
> "Sartar was an heir to the Hendriking "old ways". He went to Dragon
> Pass for this purpose, with a long-term plan to go to the homeland (or
> for his descendants to do so) and rescue them from the oppression of
> Belintar."
> Sartar was a peaceful man for a Hero, but that sounds pretty
> antagonistic, with the descendants explicitly mentioned. Possibly I'm
> reading too much into it though.

I see where you are coming from. My initial reaction is that I did not think of it as a personal gripe against Belintar. Think of it like this: there would be a difference in motivation to land at D-Day between wanting to liberate the French and German people, and hating Hitler.

The desired end is the same, but the particular focus is different.

> [Adept]
> > > Considering the way the
> > > Heortlings hold grudges, and that Sartar is the wyter of the royal
> > > family and the whole kingdom this doesn't seem likely to change.
> [Greg]
> > Your comments seem to imply a disassociation between the two nations
> > that is far more harsh than I have envisioned.
> I'm glad to hear it. It's 1601 ST in my game, and Belintar's agents
> are looking into ways to help Sartar against the Empire.

Weapons, volunteers, money, refuge, but especially magical help is likely. The HC has a lot of "large scale" magic that Sartar---and certainly not the rebel agents--would not have. They could do things like promise, "I will have enough power to levitate five hundred men in this place on such a date, accessible only by priests of storm."

Or, "The Vulture-eagle house has told their birds to report anything that they see that looks like troop movement to anyone who is at such a place."
> > > What was the relationship like in 1600? Did Belintar aid Sartar
> > > against the Empire? I expect He did, but how open was this help,
> > > and did the bad relationships hurt any attempted cooperation.
> >
> > Yes, he helped. I think it was largely under the table. I don't
> > think there was a difficulty in helping or accepting help, as the
> > danger of the approaching empire was quite apparent to all involved.
> I'm getting the impression that the antagonism towards Belintar is
> mostly in the past. Those who stayed, have learned to appreciate the
> Pharaoh, and those who left are now proud of their new lands. Besides
> the Sartarites have kinship ties to Heortland, and their relatives
> don't seem to be suffering cruel bondage, I shold think.

The Sartar Rising! Was supposed to have three parallel scenarios in it that concern this. The first one frees some Orlanthi who are very unhappy about their situation; the second one were on the fence and could be persuaded to join Argrath, but the last were old-time Esvulari, resistant to the same process.

> >> Sartar was presumably a traditional Heortling high king,
> >
> > Except he wasn't a great warrior, as most of them have been.
> Indeed, I almost forgot this. What are his descendants like. Are they
> great magicians more than fighters, like their ancestor.

No, they had less of his gift. Sartar was really plugged into the Larnstings in a way that his descendants were not. After he established the Kingdom, they moved on to whatever they are doing now. They have their own agenda, after all.

> Sartar was
> afterall the "Warlord of the Quivini", as are the later princes. They
> also seem to lead battles a lot. They have to be good generals, even
> if they aren't heroic warriors.

I envision that they were good planners and organizers, and able to maintain the administrative network that Sartar put into place to collect taxes, communicate between peoples, etc. (Certainly he created such an organization, or else his institutions could not have lased.)

> > > as well as
> > > having his own heroic powers of transformation and change. He
> > > supposed to have inheritable heroic powers that the princes of
> > > Sartar displayed.
> >
> > Reference?
> I'm thinking about things said on this list earlier. I'm pretty sure
> there was talk about inherited magic in the line of Sartar, and this
> being a feat only a few orlanthi Heroes have managed. I'll try to look
> it up.

Let us know. I do not believe I was involved in the discussion.

> > I have never envisioned Sartar's powers to be warlike. He had the
> > ability to coordinate people, to build things, _to_organize_.
> That's got to be useful in war, especially since one has to keep
> warbands and clans committed and working together.

Yes. And note how it keeps moving through the society until Argrath is able to completely reorganize the Sartarites' way of war by creating large units that are the equivalent of Imperial units.

> > > Is he leading the battle
> > > like a general protected by his bodyguard, or is he flying in the
> > > air born by a great wind?
> >
> > Surrounded by his swordthanes.
> Thanks, this helps. So Prince Salinarg is probably a 10w - 10w2 in
> personal combat skills, but splendedly equipped, and protected by his
> household and bodyguard.

Correct. And don' forget that the Telmori always had a srong bodyguard around the King of Sartar.

> Thank you again Greg, this was great!

You are welcome. These were good questions. It is my pleasure to participate when I can.

    Greg Stafford
    President, Issaries. Inc.

Love without reserve, 
Enjoy without restraint, 
Live without dead time.


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