Re: Sun Dome & Society in the Provinc

From: Greg Stafford <glorantha1_at_5n_qz7ywGtB2pLQuWvxqW5S4uXzD510X9_0eWspzNKRqYG_FglRbelCls6XvQKuzf>
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:47:03 -0700

YGWV. On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:12 AM, ileskela <> wrote:

> Thanks to all who have responded to my questions!
> My questions:
> > > What is the connection between clans, tribes and Sun Dome
> > > temples in the Lunar Provinces? Are the Sun Dome temples
> > > embedded in the tribal society, or are they separate societal
> > > entities amid tribal society?
> Greg's answers:
> > First of all, I do not think that there is one answer for all
> > these provinces. The provinces themselves differ from each
> > other, even if they are all Orlanthi. The harsh, infertile lands
> > of Brolia, far from the core Empire, provide a very different
> > environment than fertile, very Lunarized Sylila.
> I agree, although there are no Sun Dome temples in Brolia, so that the
> comparison goes a bit out of context.

Yes, sorry. I ought to have been more careful in stating examples of how the environment would affect the local sociomagical set up.

> I have always assumed that the clans are separate, dominating
> > the local politics and working to influence on the temple
> > hierarchy in a lively internal rivalry.
> As I see it, this could be the situation in the Lunar Provinces also.

Yes, it could be, and likely IS in SOME of them.

> > So, the other 13 seem to have been resurrected (not surprising
> > for a solar god, of course.) Some likely had a core of worshippers
> > who survived, hiding away and later coming back to the holy place
> > to establish the temple anew.
> Presumably this core of worshipers may have been clans with Yelmalian
> traditions?

First, When I think of clan, I think of a significant number of people. not two stragglers, or a handful of people.
I think the number of survivors varies with distance from Dragon Pass, the mayhem wrought by the Dragons being less farther away. But distance would not be a guarantee., and the overall level of destruction was pretty high.

> Resurrecting the temples probably didn't cut their ties to
> other local clans & tribes,

Maybe not. Maybe so. Incentive to do so would be pretty high if everyone knew/saw/thought that the cult was cursed, and the primary reason for the destruction.

> resulting in an embeddedness not seen in
> Sartar or Prax: not just "lively internal rivalry", but also lively
> politics with the surrounding polities (clans, tribes, kingdoms,
> provincial command, the emperor...).

Yep, quite possible.

> On the other hand, the people following Monro in Sartar may have cut
> their ties to neighbouring clans & tribes.

Yes, correct. families and individuals split off, and became new clans. Sure, there ae always individual emotions and ties,but the magic and blood was different.

> Considering the strict
> Yelmalian society, they at least distanced themselves from the
> Orlanthi.

Yes, where Orlanthi = the religion. They could not escape parts of their traditional life of course. They did change the social structure, but not the way that they plow, the animals they used and the food they ate.

> Yet they are part of the kingdom, and considered a tribe.

Good ol' Orlanthi pactical inclusionism at work.

> > May I solicit YOUR insights, opinions and campaign experiences?
> My campaign experiences are meager: a sequence of scenarios in Copper
> Town (Western Tarsh) where we had a Yelmalian shrieve (administrator).
> In the middle of clan rivalries, economic pressures, loss of tribal
> cohesion, semi-independent Lunar military units and Lunar-Orlanth
> conflict, the Yelmalian shrieve was held to be impartial, although he
> (naturally) had his own agendas.
> Things got very confusing when imperial representatives, who were of
> Dara Happan Yelmite nobility, arrived to "clear the situation". The
> role of Yelmalio as a son of Yelm made the situation of the Yelmalian
> shrive very uncomfortable. Should he have carried the new
> Yelmite/Imperial orders, which were potentially destructive to what
> was left of the local cohesion? Or should he rise against his
> superior, his father, and claim lordship over matters best handled his
> own way?
> I think this is a glimpse of a role the Yelmalians in the provinces
> might have: they are locals, have always been, but they are not Lunar.
> In their strictly ordered temple hierarchy they achieve a sort of
> independence and impartiality, and may play a very important role in
> the Provincial politics.

And in other places they are outsiders, etc.

Greg Stafford
Game Designer

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