Re: Demonization and Inclusiveness

From: Greg Stafford <glorantha1_at_--DuLfXhwjzR8SWZ_bSqmRW1iEUXf2eYTkhO57TMuaf8tKnBEU1moyKUCrndTdSEk>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 09:24:47 -0700

I will respond to TI and Joerg below.

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:45 AM, jorganos <> wrote:

> Terra Incognita:
> > In recent thread about Seshnela and Monotheism, Greg put some about
> > the term "demonization" with special meaning.
> > Of course, Spolites were hated and treated as evil from neighborhoods.
> The western method of demonization makes an opponent vulnerable to
> anti-demon magics. IMO, by their association with forces of darkness
> and destruction, the Spolites qualify already, without anyone having
> to undergo that ritual.

Although, in fact, they were demonized (in game terms) by the neighboring sorcerous peoples that they conquered. Unlike most enemies however, the Spolites were glad to have the additional powers to add to their array or infernal ways.

> But in other words, I am not sure such total condemnation to enemy
> > is required / used by polytheists of Glorantha like Orlanthi,
> > such absolute concept of Good/Evil is something closer to
> > monotheistic idea, in my personal view.

I agree. Polytheism does not require the absolutism that monotheism imposes.

> The Orlanthi make use of "Summons of Evil", which has a somewhat
> similar mind-set about enemies. Like with demonization, this both
> defines and strengthens the enemy.

The "Summons of Evil" requires that an entity has already self-identified as the enemy of the person doing the ceremony, or that it be chaos--i.e. "antilife," that is: against the very tenets of existence. So it is different in that manner from Demonization, in which the caster can determine whether the recipient is "evil" or not.

> Joerg:
> > >The Entekosiad shows a sequence of dominant cultures in Pelanda, which
> > >could have been experienced by indigenous cultural memory due to the
> > >generally inclusive nature of the Pelandans. All of those cycles
> > >correspond to certain Ages of the World,

Yes, that is correct.

> > >which appear to defy the
> > >simultanity of myths postulated in another recent thread.

Defy the simultanity?
I don't understand what you mean by that.

How about this: each of the Big Events is really just another viewing of the same event, but from different perspectives, different point of view, or using different perceptions, or a layer of interpretation that imposes its own visuals (the appearance of things) and morals upon what is being seen.

> I assume this is Lunar Way, inclusive to contradictions.
> > I am not sure such inclusiveness to inconsistency (and illumination)
> > is derived from Pelandan Culture.

I think that the Pelorian sources indicate a dialectic between the central, unified single state of Dara Happa and fragmentary, liberal, artistic Pelanda. Pelanda is the "land of Lodril" to the Dara happans, where the dirty, misled brother of Perfect Yelm fell down into sex, love, reproduction, dirt, pleasure, carnality, eroticism, fun, friendship, informal bonding systems, perversion, spiritism and sorcery, forbidden sacrifices, pouty cultural resentment and all the other things of gross materialism that make the people suitable to be slaves.

There is a cycle of Dara Happa being infiltrated by art, beliefs and lax morals from Pelanda, and then purging it. So, in comparison with Dara Happa, Pelanda is relatively inclusive.

IMO the Jernotian way goes a long way to define Sedenya's teachings.
> Long enough that Valare Addi had sufficient reason to identify Rufelza
> with Entekos before being sent on that course of heroquests (IIRC, again).

I would poin tout that Valare Addi seems to have confused the intercessional nature of these two entities as being their inner, essential power--the source of their being. Valare, after her subsequent HQ, came to another conclusion.

Greg Stafford
Game Designer

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