Re: Changed magic in 2nd and 3rd Age

From: L C <lightcastle_at_SEEP8bwoAdsrqeilpMxFxlkC69i9kgNZ7pVzijxta26q2Nx-JdcKhMsmVSxr_nSG>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 00:38:20 -0400 wrote:

>That's the basic definition, yes.

Not that that's ever made clear in the rules anywhere. All the magic systems cross/open a portal to the other side, then HeroQuesting is presented as a big special other thing that has other characteristics entirely.

>The only magic you can get without HQing is common magic because its
>source is already in the material world.

Yeah. Definitely something that should be made clearer if that's really the case.
Or it should be specified that the Big Deal Hero Questing is this special case of experimental or something. Or different terms used.

>On one level HQing has always existed - performing known myths whose
>origins go back to the beginning of time. Those HQs have changed and
>varied, generally in small details which is why you get local

So Sorcerers actually don't learn spells from books, they hero quest, just like theists? And binding a fetish requires re-enacting a myth? I mean, if all HeroQuesting is performing known myths and all magics are the results of heroquesting, then really there's no difference between the various magic systems on one level.
The whole "veneration/sacrifice/ecstatic" is just sort of trappings to help people figure out how to cross over and know what to do.

>The other level is 'experimental' HQing. Going off the path of the
>known myth to try and achieve something else. Invented by the GLers
>although few people in the 3rd Age realise that. That's the big

I thought it was invented by Arkat?

But most of the HeroQuests we've ever had presented are NOT experimental HeroQuests. They are well-known hero quests that just happen to address rare situations.

>>A spell is something you learn, right? So it's a formula to access the
>>power of a rune.
>>So how is that a HeroQuest?
>The power of the rune comes from Glorantha via one of the three worlds,
>via the HeroPlane. If the text you learn from hasn't been linked to
>an essence source you're just learning meaningless words. Learning a
>spell from a grimoire is a very controlled and limited HQ.

So really there is the "attune the grimoire" heroquest, and then all your spells work. So you re-enact the myth of your school's founder first attuning the grimoire, then you can use the spells since they are now attuned. (Presumably, the book itself includes tips/knowledge to help teach you this one heroquest.)

In a way, all sorcery then is just a variant on the "Do a HeroQuest to get a magic sword" thing.

>If the modern sorcerer could find a GL grimoire. If he could read
>it correctly. And if he could find the people to support him
>performing the magic. Then yes.

Nod. Wasn't trying to imply it would be easy. :)

>They are possibly the only people with the resources and inclination
>to get hold of a GL grimoire and try and use it. So far they haven't
>done so.

Almost did in my old Karse game. :-)

>There are three theistic cultures where were have any significant
>information - the Heortlings, the Lunars and the Dara Happens. All
>the rest exist as outlines.

Fair enough.
I'll be happy to find out that this isn't the case.

>I'm sure there are offshoots of Malkonism which have all sorts of
>strange ideas. How common those demanding change are I don't know
>but they will exist. After all the Carmenians and Spolites have
>moved a very long way as far as I can see.

Yeah, I had forgotten the Carmanians and that's about as good an example as it gets of moving off to another path.

>Are they? KoS is very unclear about why the Empire falls. Certainly
>Argrath pinches Lunar ideas to defeat them. Where else does 'Temple
>of the Reaching Storm' come from? (KoS pg. 157)

A fair point. I still like the reading of the book where they win, but then I'm pro-Lunar. :)

>I see no reason why a Hero could not do it. It's magic which fits
>a Vingan affinity - combat, specifically spear combat. We know the
>GLers pinched theistic magic so why should the reverse not be

And, in your view of it all being based on heroquesting anyway, there's no real barrier to "pinching" in the first place, since it all comes from the same place.
Even if you do a "it all comes from the runes, we just have different approaches to calling it that" it still allows for pinching. I think the question is whether this pinching comes from mere imitation ("they threw something! I could throw something!") or some kind of more direct "stealing of power" like everyone accuses the God Learner's of.


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