Re: Caste

From: Greg Stafford <glorantha1_at_ChzXmU86FZ5j1uNLHTjElw61vzny05vN0C6QSkFqsh_ZtZC50IiFq1i4jr6DWkgDt>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 18:08:36 -0700

YGWV On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:35 PM, ttrotsky2 <>wrote:

> wrote:
> >> You have said several times before that, among the Rokari, the
> >> leaders of
> >> religious services have to belong to the same caste as their
> >> congregation.
> >
> > The Professor asks (and greg begs): "Source?"
> > I would like to see the source to qualify or greg myself on this
> > point.
> HQ1 p. 158 is the first source that comes to mind.

I love literacy.

I have copied the entire passage below, in case someone wants to reference it without the book.

> Actually it says "most" liturgists, and doesn't specifically mention the
> Rokari, but I'd imagine they're unlikely to be an exception on something
> like this. (I might be wrong, or it might be that you didn't even write this
> bit, of course). And it does, on re-reading it, add the qualification that
> liturgists are not necessarily clergy.

One distinction that I wanted to make there was between the magic-using liturgists (no matter how simple and crude they may be at performing magic) and the clergy, who do not need magic at all and can nonetheless tap in and use juice from the Chain of Veneration, but can not actually contribute to it (except for their personal essence power). [That is, the system is easily abused].

>> Now, these low-ranking liturgists are not your full-blown sorcerer
> --snip-

> Greg: > You are 100% right in this.
> > Importantly: they are a key link in the Rokari pyramid scheme of
> > Veneration.
> Absolutely. It seems we are in agreement about the facts (if not the
> terminology) after all!

Better than that Jamie. You were more right than I was by a long shot.

Rokari Liturgists
What the Rokari priesthood says about liturgists.

"The clergy are not wizards or sorcerers, but are members of the caste into which they were born. However, because of the depredations upon the Saint's Way done by the Zzaburites, Hrestolists and God Learners, the divine pattern has been disrupted and we commonly find people out of caste who are magically capable. The *Abiding Book*, All bless It, made the way to save these wretches from perdition by creating the clergy, a body of magic-users from other castes. These people are taught the rudiments of the One Way, and they are given authority among their caste to fill in for leading the regular veneration of the One if no more qualified individual is present. Their authority disappears if they perform outside of the tenets of the *Abiding
It is true that discipline among the liturgists purifies them, and it is possible that they can correct the error of their creation through their children. Many of their descendants qualify to be tested for essential qualities, and as children of legitimate users of the Malkioni Way, and having passed the rigors of knowledge, power and experience, can enter into the ranks of the Purified, and enter into the lowest of the castes of sorcerers."

I think. :)

Greg Stafford
Game Designer

Here is the quote form HQ1

Liturgists are not automatically clergymen, and many have
just enough learning to read their scripture. Villages, trade
guilds, and even individual ships may have their own liturgist.
Most come from the same caste as their congregation. Most liturgists
belong to a church, leading their congregations in worship
and serving as counselor, worship leader, and spiritual
advisor. Historically, liturgists are clergymen schooled, tested,
and regulated by the church hierarchy. Church approval is not
necessary, however, and increasingly in the West the magical
duties of liturgists are separated from the occupational duties
of the clergy. Some liturgists are demagogues, lone preachers
with nothing but charisma, a copy of their scripture, a rag-tag
band of followers, and the Word of God. Many liturgists
belong to saintly orders, working with and leading worship for
their brother orderlies. A liturgist in a fighting order, for example,
might very well be a soldier or warrior rather than a clergyman.

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