From: Nick the Nevermet <nick.the.nevermet_at_PAnrULLR0i0pTxHQoOkwlQBvBhkRAdZwoBnI7DSH3Wk4hKfG_0y2Mcumde1V4vfXo4NZlf-T8TGbEd5B6lNpLcEZ.yahoo.invalid>
Subject: Re: So what's SOLACE to a rokari ?
To: WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 20 January, 2011, 16:51
I wonder if there is caste specific knowledge (with all its religious and magical connotations) that is not included in the Wizard's understanding of things. So, for example, is there "peasant wisdom" that is known only to peasants, and this arrangement is seen as religiously proper?
It does not seem at all illogical that a church which teaches that Solace lies in devotion to the duties of one's caste should not take it a step further and encourage this idea by teaching that just as each caste has its role, each caste has its "wisdom" too.
Though I can also see force in Nick's idea that the centralising tendencies of the Rokari church hierarchy might be against it for reasons of their own, with the result that the idea is heretical rather than mainstream. Though it must exist somewhere ...
Secondly how widespread is unofficial "peasant wisdom", by which I mean (i) non-essence plane 'folk magic'; 'wise women' in remote villages who are unofficial spirit-talkers (and make charms and dabble in animism in other ways); or communities which show reverence for Saints in ways which are not approved of by the mainstream church.
I would imagine that the rigour with which Holy Church clamps down on this is far from uniform too-- and that, praradoxically it may even be persecuted least in the areas where it is least common.
I doubt the Rokari in practice have this, as the whole "One God, One Church, One King" slogan suggests a centralization of power which would not like sect-specific mysteries (I'm less sure about whether or not it's compatible in the abstract with the teachings of St. Rokar, however).
I also can't imagine this is the case for the Hrestoli, since there's too much mobility. And the Asharan Church is too syncretistic to have the elaborated theology for such an arrangement.
I second Nick's views on the Ashara Church, but maybe gaining and losing caste-specific beliefs (and blessings?) could also be seen as part of Hrestoli caste mobility? Indeed aybe there is theological debate (and/or regional variations) within Hrestoli churches as to whether this is a good thing?
I appear to have answered my own question to an extent, but now I'm fascinated by the idea of caste specific mysteries. ...Or maybe this would just get folded into the liturgy for saints, who are certainly caste-specific in many cases.
In churches which are big on saints, this seems to be one obvious 'home' for caste-specific 'wisdom', modelled on the life and teachings of particular saints.
The "farmer" caste (Dronari?) in particular is a broad church, including downtrodden peasants, artisans, yeoman farmers, merchants (some of whom might even be quite wealthy), clerks and scribes who don't quite get into the other castes, and modest country landowners who don't quite get into the soldier caste (indeed I recall an old and unofficial source on the Hrestoli church (ToTRM 12?) suggested that by the end of the Third Age some people in Loskalm chose not to seek promotion to the soldier caste because it tended to mean a one-way ticket to the front line against the Kingdom of War).
I therefore like the idea of saintly orders which reflect caste, but which also reflect the different strata within the caste as well. It seems more attractive than treating all members of the same caste as a homogenous mass. Come to think of it, wouldn't at least some healers and scribes belong to this caste too?
Also shouldn't merchants, sailors and artisans have different role models to farmers (and maybe some subtly different work-related blessings too?).
In lands where the church encourages th veneration of saints.
I even quite like the idea of each significant guild of artisans having its own saint, drawing on their members' trade as a source of analogies for the teachings of the church, and re-telling stories from the life of that saint (or even re-enacting them through music or drama) in a guild-hall or chapel or market square on their saint's feast-day(s)?
If I remember correctly the MRQ book on Fronela in the Second Age also said some interesting things about different levels of status within caste in the Hrestoli church. How, for example, there are several ranks within the soldier caste (reflecting a mixture of military experience and wealth), and several ranks within the wizard caste, (from monks to priests to priests who manage other priests)
Don't know how 'canonical' it is though, or whether/how things have moved on in the Third Age? (I would, for example, imagine that the battle with the Kingdom of War has made the Hrestoli Church think about itself too)
Richard Hayes
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Powered by hypermail