Leaving aside the wizards and the lords, I think the warrior and farming families for a given region should have shared kinships due to the women in their lives.
> what is significant is that a caste group often extends beyond a
> political boundary. So the Talar family assigned the Dangim March (a
> region or county - see MSE page 21-22. After the collapse of the MSE,
> the Seshnelan nobles who were given authority over the soldiers took
> over the civilian bureaucracy, resulting in combined titles) looks to
> its counterparts in Tanisor and Rindland for marriage and culture, and
> not to the Drolar workers or allied Horali communities. The ruling
> Talars are all related, and all claim descent from the family of
> Bailifes the Hammer or his companions.
I don't see the Dangim March in the reference that you gave (I'm not disputing the example just that I couldn't find it). Secondly there is nearly four hundred years between the collapse of the Middle Sea Empire and the rise of Bailifes. While Tanisor since that time has conquered Safelster twice (one by Bailfies himself and the second by Ulianus III), During the four hundred years before then Safelster actually has conquered much of Tanisor at least once (one such war is mentioned in Uz Lore and results in Pasos, Guhan and Arolanti joining forces). It is possible for the Safelstran aristocracy to claim descent from Bailifes but I'm inclined this is largely true for western Safelster and I have difficulty believing it for places further east and some families are more likely to claim not to be descended from Bailifes even if they are.
Secondly I do not believe it is possible for the Lordly children to be all married off to offspring of fellow Lords. Only the first born (or whatever hereditary rules they would use) would be married to daughters of fellow lords. Other kids are going to get sloppy seconds in terms of marriage partners. Some second sons may be sent to distant lands to be their lords (pretty much like how Greece ended up with a Dane as their king) but such opportunities are rare.
> One thing to always keep in mind, the Malkioni world view is urban not
> rural. Even if the bulk of the Drolar population work on farms, the
> talars are as likely to envision Drolars as artisans as peasants (and
> certainly more likely to see artisans or the wealthy elders of a
> farming guild).
I like to make a sidebar for a stylistic motion here. The use of Talars, Drolars and Horali is seriously offputting when used for modern Malkioni. We don't speak of Orlanthi Dars (chieftains) or use native names for Thanes, Cottars and the like. Likewise for Dara Happa, we speak of Emperors and Overseers rather than Ern Azali Baka Est Ja and Arths. I understand your intention to avoid medievalisms (like the use of Watchers instead of Bishops) in favour of depicting Malkioni society as a Greek City State or even a Minoan Palace Economy run by Pythagoreans. But I feel it would be best to use english words such as Aristocracy, Helots and Hoplites for example.
> Amongst the ancient Brithini, the parent's status did not determine
> caste.
I think the Brithini had more variance in their custom than you suggest. For example, Arkat was raised in the caste of his maternal grandfather. Likewise Hrestol is the first son of Froalar and he was also a Talar. When Ylream was born, he was also a Talar. The four sons rule is I feel an Arolanit custom.
> However, that rule was explicitly trumpted by the Abiding Book (which
> says something like the child inherits its virtue from the parents)
> and that was codified in the Sharp Abiding Book of the Rokari. Amongst
> the Rokari, legitimate daughters belong to their father's caste.
I strongly doubt that the Rokari would innovate with tradition to the extent of giving women caste. A woman's virtue would be inherited from her mother and not her father. It wasn't done in the good old days before Hrestol and to do it now sits rather oddly with their back to the basics philosophy.
> That is not my understanding of a Rokari district. There are probably
> about 15-20,000 adult male Talars in all of Rokari Seshnela. They
> marry amongst each other, socialize with each other, and have all
> sorts of taboos to keep themselves above and outside the workers and
> soldiers.
Let's look at the second (and third) sons problem that I mentioned before. The aristocracy is steadily increasing in numbers. They don't get killed at the same rate as the soldiers even if they do join the armed forces. Obviously making the wealthy merchants aristocrats alleviates some of the pressure but that kind of makes it hard to avoid intercourse with the artisans. In addition there is Guilmarn's bad habit of dispossessing titled nobles and awarding the lands to himself. Even allowing for duelling clubs that rival the Lunar dart competitions, there's still going to be major population pressure on Rokari society within a generation or two and Tanisor has had ten since Bailifes came to power.
A better solution, I feel, would be to apply the taboos on the _titled_ aristocracy, Barons, Counts and all that with the untitled aristocracy (merchants, officers etc) still obeying caste law but having greater latitude for relations with the lower castes. Of course, how far you go hampers your chance of receiving a title.
> These military associations (Horal guilds) are settled around the
> district and assigned Dromal guilds for their support. They in turn
> pledge their loyalty to the district's talars. Between the Horals and
> the Dromals, I suspect you have far more caste interaction that you
> are supposed to.
I think we should be distinguishing between what Theoblanc Palpatine Ratzinger thinks Rokari society should be like and what was acceptable practice among his predecessors. The caste interaction that we both agree occurs between the soldiers and the farmers is, I feel, acceptable and long standing practice in Tanisor but what that has become the target of condemnation by Theoblanc. The titled aristocracy on the other hand has long been following his lead.
--Peter Metcalfe
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