Re: Roots of rokari power

From: hcarteau_at_yqy0S4a2Z4jjT8zbw9zGY5_UfH7VOt3LpklBSGQX6k_rKMmurLSZqdjtU7PpoHXM7Ic
Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 18:24:23 +0200

/// Very thoughtful comments, I like your take on the rokari.

> In addition to the arguments advanced below (as if from inside Rokarism),
/// Yep, I like to play the devil's advocate. But I went from hating the rokari to a more nuanced opinion thanks to Jeff's fascinating work. Even though I think he overkills on dechristianizing them.

why did it take the best part of four centuries to get its act together? Or is there a prophetic, apocalyptic edge to Rokarism, which tries to keep everyone on the straight and narrow lest there be another flood? /// I had never thought about that, but why not ? Theoblanc and his staff are the only ones who fully understand Rokar's message, straight from Makan. There might be a few things so horrendous that they kept them secret. Until now.   
> I know analogies between Malkionism and Christianity are out of favour,
/// they're OK with me. People are People. And "there is only one God..."

but maybe one answer is that, as with Christianity in the West,  it took the
> conversion of a powerful temporal leader (Bailifes the Hammer(?) playing the
> role of the Emperor Constantine), for these ideas to really take off-- even
> though they were centuries old by now.
/// Beautiful ! But a little off. Rokar was martyred in 1349, after 20 or so years of preaching. It means his Crusade/Jihad only began nearly three centuries after the catastrophe. Before him, the seshnegi spent this time in a mess, as the List of Kings states. Everybody was so afraid to trigger a new deluge there was a dukedom of Tanisor at best.

> Indeed earlier versions of Rokarism suggested that Rokarism began as a
> 'grass roots' movement, it said that Rokar's teachings fell foul of the powers
that be and he was martyred.
/// He did, by accusing the rulers of this time - including the Church - to be corrupt and caste-breaking, of bringing back the catastrophe because of their vices. No ruler likes to hear that.
  
At the risk of drawing an analogy with the Western Church again, /// Again, that's cool. It gives a valuable, easy to understand analogy to people who haven't studied religions too much. And it does fit.

I suppose one could say the same of the Western Church before the papacy was invented.
/// That's where the Constantin analogy comes in best IMO. Bailifes saw this fringe sect, he liked what they said about Order and they agreed to make a deal to support him. Or maybe he saw a Cross, sorry Triangle, in the skies before the battle of Asgolan Fields. Who knows ?            

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