As far as Babs Gor is concerned, her inclusion is partly practical. Praxian society has very few options for women other than Eirithan healers, so BG provides an outlet for female players and female PCs who want something else to do. My Praxian campaign has too many female players to squeeze them all into Eiritha.
Andrew
On May 2, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Chris Lemens wrote:
> Andrew:
> > Is there anything else known about who or what is at the Paps?
>
> The hills above the Paps cover the physical body of Eiritha. The Paps are where
> Waha, Eiritha's son, emerged into the world, full-grown. Most of the holy
> precincts are actually underground. If you go deep into the temple, you
> literally go into the body of the goddess. From there, you can find exits into
> the various ages before time (including, if you are really unlucky, the green
> age).
>
> The Respected Elders and the Most Respected Elder live in the Paps. They are the
> highest Eiritha priestesses -- one Respected Elder for each of the 10 tribes.
> The title of these priestesses is very different from the titles of the Eiritha
> priestesses in the tribes. This is because, way back when the entire Praxian
> people lived together, but after Waha left, the Elders of that single group
> selected Elstorana to be the Most Respected Elder. The Queens (Kheens) did not
> come into existence until that group broke apart, first into the tribes, then
> into the clans and septs. Egajia Flesh-Eater (a Morocanth) is the current Most
> Respected Elder. The is a deep schemer who trusts few and works for results that
> are far into the future.
>
> In the temple proper are a host of cults that exist nowhere else. The 48 Old
> Ones are the old plant goddesses that survive only in the temple. There are also
> a few Outlandish earth cults here, like the Axe Sister, which women who fight
> usually join. The Axe Sisters guard the outside of the temple; the
> Serpent Guardians guard the inside of the temple. The Axe Sisters have old
> (first-age) shrines to Outlandish earth goddesses, whom they say are Eiritha's
> sisters. The Serpent Guardians guard a lot of treasures, but not really the kind
> that looters (i.e. PC's) go after. It is more like the medicine bundles of
> obscure spirits.
>
> The land around the Paps is where Waha gathered the remnants of the peoples who
> used to live in Prax. The remained there for generations, so there are actually
> lots of (mostly buried) historical places there. One notable example are the
> carvings on the stone walls near the entrance to the temple, which Elstorana
> Waha-daughter commissioned. These show important scenes from Praxian history:
> Tada burying Eiritha, Storm Bull falls, Eiritha helps Storm Bull, the Block,
> Foundchild and the miserable survivors, Waha thanks his mother, Waha shows his
> insignia of greatness, Waha tames the elemental demons, Waha remakes the world,
> Waha makes the Survival Covenant. (Or, at least, that's what the modern Praxians
> think they are.)
>
> Remember that the Paps was, during the first age, the center of one of the
> best-surviving peoples in Glorantha. The dawn ages were a great time for
> Praxians. The Praxians met the First Council on equal footing, and never felt
> the need to join it. But they were powerful enough that they could later
> send warriors to support it (as allies or mercenaries, depending on whom you
> ask). The divergence is that Praxian material culture has not advanced much
> since then, while the Outlanders have. So think about the types of things you
> would find at a place that was a center of power for a successful culture in the
> first age, and that was on offense through the middle of the second age.
>
> This is where the Great Khan lives. As Peter noted, his authority extends as far
> as his bully boys. Depending on when you are playing, that can be most of Prax
> e.g., Inire the Red, through his control over the Sable tribe). The Great Khan
> holds Waha's Pain, the great medicine bundle of Waha. This allows him to
> incarnate Waha at times of great need. Inire the Red can't manage it, though.
>
> Peter:
> > I'm not so sure the Babeester Gori are there. Babs comes from a different
> >mythology than Eiritha and although there are
> > attempts to find common elements between Orlanthi and Praxian deities, they
> >aren't very strong.
>
> I generally agree with this. The Axe Sisters are one of the few remnants of
> peaceful dawn-age contact between Eiritha's temple at the Paps and that big
> Ernalda temple with the funny name that I can't remember - Evilknevil or
> somethng like that. The role they play in Praxian society has to do with women
> who just don't fit in. They are not much of a real fighting force. They are more
> like the Most Respected Elder's honor guard and police force. (From a rules
> perspective, I would treat Axe Sister as the the guardian of a hero band.)
>
> > The Paps is also the residence of the High Khan of Waha at the Paps
> >who outranks every other Khan (although they are
> > not obliged to obey him if he's not around). He's got little else to do than
> >sit around and participate in the Eirithan rites,
> > so I think many of them have delusions about being an Emperor of sorts and
> >ineffectual plotting to achieve that aim.
> >
> > That many High Khans were probably kicked upstairs into their current position
> >of impotence probably adds fuel to their aim
> >
> > of obtaining power.
>
> Generally I agree with this. The position of Highest Khan does not bring power.
> If you have influence and respect, you can continue to exercise it powerfully
> while being Highest Khan. For example, the Caylash Rhino was Highest Khan. The
> story of the second-age Rhino Khans, though, is tragic. It is one of the (many)
> reasons why the position of Highest Khan brings no power. Here is something I
> wrote about the Rhino Khans.
>
> ===
> The Chant of the Rhino Khans
> The Chant is a great tragic poem of the three great Rhino Khans of the second
> age: Caylash Rhino, Jorbal Rhino Khan, and Toras Joran.
> Caylash Rhino fought against the trolls in Dagori Inkarth (from 780) until they
> broke the Rhino Founder bundle (in 810). As Highest Khan (heroforming Waha), he
> and Paragua the Giant fought the Outlanders settling at Robcradle (800), Adari
> (809), and Pavis (830). When he called on Waha to fight Pavis, Pavis tore out
> his hamstrings and killed Paragua. After that, the Waha bundle was known as
> Waha’s Pain. After Pavis healed him (831), he retired to the Paps, a broken man.
> Jorbal Rhino Khan quested to remake the Rhino Founder bundle, and returned with
> the Great Rhino bundle. Great Rhino taught the Rhino Tribe that every man is a
> khan. Jorbal spent the energies of the Rhino Tribe attempting to sack Pavis
> again and succeeded in a victory whose price far exceeded its value.
> Toras Joran used the Great Rhino bundle to attack Pavis, destroying everything
> but the internal fortresses (1150) and cracking the walls of the temple of Pavis
> (1195). His story ends the Chant of the Rhino Khans.
> ===
>
> > Since the Paps is peaceful ground, you could have intrigue by having the Secret
> >Societies (Star Witches, Sunset Society, Serpent Dancers, Wind
> > Singers and the Red School of Masks) having lodges there to act as embassies,
> >recruiting houses as well as people to speak to.
>
> I totally agree with this. For color, add in a lunar emissary or researcher,
> some bullmen paying their respects, caravaneers trying to sell their wares
> without offending, and either one big clan (bison or impala) or several smaller
> clans (high llama, morocanth, or sable) visiting (and having to maintain the
> peace). The usually practice is for a visiting clan to send an advance party
> ahead to greet the Most Respected Elder and to be told where to camp. There are
> several sites around the Paps that are good sites. If all the sites are already
> full, one of the functions of the Highest Khan is to enforce the requirement
> that the current occupant must depart. He may be an object of ridicule
> elsewhere, but messing with the Highest Khan in person at the Paps is actually a
> really bad idea. Even weaklings like Iire the Red. That said, almost no one is
> going to disobey the Most Respected Elder, so it's kind of a moot point in
> normal times. But having the Highest Khan go off to deliver the message
> personally gets your characters introduced to him.
>
> hcarteau:
> > Genert sat there and awoke many earth daimones and spirits and essences, mostly
> >female but some male.
> I don't think this is true. The Paps is purely a place about Eiritha and Waha.
>
> > Or maybe they were parts of Genert which were torn off in his death throes and
> >who coalesced there.
> I think the torn-off parts of Genert are something else. "Parts of Genert" is
> one way to view the 48 Old Ones, though not torn-off parts and though they are
> female and he is male. More unpublished maundering about megaliths in the
> Greatlands though you don't see these at the Paps:
>
> ===
> Praxian Megaliths
> Throughout the Greatlands are megalithic structures of 49 standing stones.
> They are often arranged in a square of seven by seven stones or in a pattern of
> eight intersecting circles where one stone is part of all eight circles. One
> stone is always cracked. These are where the Anmora [the happy ancestors]
> honored Genert and the 48 Old Ones.
> ===
>
> > Short form : no normal rules apply in the Paps. It's still Green Age Magics,
> >the Magics of Life and harmony.
> This is only true deep down in the temple under the Eiritha Hills.
>
> > I'm not even sure the sun and stars above it are "right", they might show the
> >Harmonious Skies of old.
> The stars you see outside of the temple are normal. In the underground temple,
> you can't see the sky.
>
> > The Earth lives and breathes there, hills are rearranging themselves, but no
> >herd beast is afraid as their loving Mothers
> > guide them out of harm's way. Water springs out of rocks, pure and vital. Some
> >say these springs can make you
> > young again. No wonder plenty of people try to go there.
> > They get lost. Most end up somewhere on the Other Side and are never seen
> >again. The Paps are a Thin Place...
>
> All true, except maybe the part about "most" getting lost. Praxians are very big
> on safe pathways. The Respected Elders know many, and the Serpent Guardians keep
> out most others. By the way, the water coming out of the temple is milky
> colored.
>
> Chris
>
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