Re: A sense of scale

From: jorganos <joe_at_7UhAZl2U94ZX9gtUbaHM_P_rTq-384DkEQ-wao1XCAFZEKjXHokjsOQK9gGrlgFVCPTVX5-n>
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:15:30 -0000


Peter Metcalfe:
> The ancient gloranthans are not ordinary humans huffing paint in the caves.

Looking at the Entekosiad, sometimes they are exactly that in the Theist realm. But let's look at Danmalastan:

> They are creatures of magic.

The Erasanchula definitely are (and western humanity claims descent from these).

> Their history is one of exploration of the material world combined with an inexplicable decline in the cosmos and themselves.

The cosmos doesn't decline during the Multiplication, but it does take away the focus of the cosmos on the individual power, so it may appear as a decline to the individual.

Strictly speaking, decline is tied to the Fifth Action, although Fourth Action brought enough upheaval once the Vadeli chose not to conform.

> The material innovation in their lives are attempts to the shortcomings in their lives that were once hidden but have become serious.

Not true. In the beginning, Kadenit and his descendants helped create the ideal material environment for a perfect society. The more they had achieved, the less remained to be done or refined, and at some point they were stuck introducing infinitesimal optimizing to the grand basic concepts. The city approached perfection in the material world of the Fourth Action, and its duplications may have started with more organized plans, but would not outshine the core concept of the city.

This way, the Kadeniti were doomed to reach a standstill. Every single one of them would continue to produce most masterfully executed products, but creativity would have run out even without outside interference in the devolutionary logic.

IMO the Logicians projected this flaw on the outside interferences which hampered their fractal improvements to the point that made repair of collateral damage take up most of their activity. The Enrovalini, who formed the core of the refugee colony in Brithos, perhaps were better off as the Philosophers whose working material was Thought and Mind rather than material things. However, I have a hard time dealing with a population of philosopher farmers and soldiers, and I feel that only the Zzabur caste really participated in the expansion of Knowledge, the rest stagnating as good as they could while providing the infrastructure for the thinkers to follow their ideas.

> For example the earliest Danmalastani could live by thought alone. They had no need of writing or even farming for they could think of whatever they wanted (ie a full belly) and it would be. Later they could not do this and their explorations in magic is an attempt to recapture that earlier state.

That is emancipation from the Green Age.

"Their explorations in magic" actually captures my complaint about the West and its material culture. The descendants of the Erasanchula mostly did the magic of being, of performing the assigned tasks of their ancestors in caste, tribe and other concepts. I strongly suspect that the Burtae concept applied to the rank and file people of Danmalastan.

Being of mixed heritage, their magic of being turned into merely being. Among the caste strictured Danmalastani, only the Zzaburi did much of the explorations in magic, the rest of the society happily provided for them to be able to do so following their railways of behaviour and actions. The Waertagi, Kachasti and Viymorni also followed their ancestral behaviours of going out to sea, going out to talk to others, and going out to explore for exploration's sake. The other Danmalastani participated in the City of Logic and its duplicates.

> There is no such thing as Brithini Orthodoxy in mythical times.

You are correct in that there were no Brithini prior to the Fifth Action.

> Brithos is a fortress of learning during the Great Darkness,

I'd rather say it is a fortress of knowledge. The only ones doing the original learning are Zzabur and perhaps his assistants. They then dictate the patterns for the rest. The rest don't really learn.

> its rigid traditions a product of the dearly won lessons of desperate survival.

Desperation came a long time after rigidity, IMO.

> Before Brithos was the Storm Age Republic of Zerendel, a society that was as vibrant as Dara Happa or the Vingkotlings.

Sure... if you ask the Zzaburi. I doubt that the farmers went anywhere towards new heights of insight or culture. They started with the perfect crops, the archetypal tools, and maybe specialized these. But there is only a limited way to go down this path, after that the only development was dealing with the loss of archetypes and perfection without changing themselves, as far as this impossibility could be achieved.            

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