Re: Venn Diagram - Magic <> Culture from David Cake on 2012-10-14 (World of Glorantha)

From: David Cake <dave_at_...>
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:14:51 -0400

On 12/10/2012, at 9:27 PM, Kevin McDonald wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_....nz

>> wrote:

>> **
>> On 10/13/2012 8:39 AM, Kevin McDonald wrote:
>>> That Glamours appear/function like the
>>> other forms of magic is a limitation of the magician - not the magic.
>>> 
>> I would say that it's a limitation placed by the Cosmos.
>>

>
> How so? My interpretation is that a Lunar magician's glamours take the form
> of sorcery etc because that is all that the limited mind of the magician
> can grasp until fully enlightened.

	A fully enlightened Lunar magician is still limited, they are just fully aware of it. Knowing that the system of magic you are using is just one arbitrary way of doing things is useful, but doesn't mean you can just ignore the limitations of that system and create a new one. 
	A Sevened magician knows that their sorcery (or rune magic, or spirit magic, etc) is just one set of tools for interacting with the Cosmos, and understands the other possible tools are just as valid and just as limited. But when using a particular tool, it still works the same way, and still has most of the limitations of that tool. The real advantage of Sevening/Illumination is that is opens up the options to learn new tools/systems. 
	Breaking the limitations of existing magic is something that the Sevened magician learns to do only gradually, IMO. And some are easier than others (eg I think the old RQ3 Lunar magic system of breaking the limitations of (what is now called) Folk Magic is something many Lunars learn to do, breaking the limitations of Sorcery/Divine Magic/Spirit magic is harder. Though being able to use Divine Magic without having to live with its Taboos/Geases/ limitations of free will is pretty damn useful, and intrinsic to Illumination.

> I assume you have another take on it.
> Why should the Cosmos dictate the manifestations of something that is by
> nature a kind of refutation of the Cosmos itself - or possibly that the
> Cosmos is itself a massive long-lasting Glamour.

	Lunar sorcery still has most of the limitations of sorcery, Lunar divine magic still has most of the limitations of divine magic, etc - but Lunar mystic magic does not. Lunar mystic magic, however, may not seem to do much directly. 
	Cheers
		David