Re: powerful augments

Hmm, you know, I think that's by far the longest-played characters I ever saw.
I mean, we tend to change game every 10 sessions or so. In retrospect, I guess we really like HeroQuest and really like the Heroes :)

That must be why I'm a bit lost to find my players _still_ want to play and still want the same characters. I'm more into Kleenex, my self, but hey.

Jane:
>> The PCs' best abilities are now at 5w3, with, say,
>> around 20 abililities between
>> 1w2 and 19w2 (so, potentially giving between +4 and
>> +6, in correct
>> circumstances) and 30 others at more than 1w.
>>
>
> That is *very* high.
>

Yes. And very wide. Many many abilities. That's the problem. I guess no one IMG saw it coming, me included.

> so shape your up the level of play: they are obviously movers and shakers.
Oh, they are shapers and movers all right. I mean, they twarthed JarEel's dismemberment of the Pharaoh, they pushed the Wolf Pirates back, they walked on Danmalastan, they found Dormal in the Sky...

> It sounds as if you have a misalignment between the
> level their stats put them at, and their story level
> compared with the NPCs they meet. I've had this once
> before, but the other way round: we looked at the
> Swords campaign, saying "but this guy's been a
> professional mercenary for ten years, how come his
> basic skills are around 17- 1W?" What we did was
> revalue our currency - look at what level we thought
> the PCs should be compared with standards and NPCs,
> then rewrite all their skills to fit.
>

We had the same problem, back in ... 2000 I guess.When I thought 5w was outstanding and I sold that to my players. The rules taught me otherwise :) Strange to think HW was presented as 'you're heroes, no more Mr RuneQuest', when it's obviously not the case. A starting HW Hero as about the same probability of success that a RQ one (40-60%).

> One idea is to only allow one augment from each
> keyword: assuming you can remember which keyword you
> got them from in the first place! Or maybe two from
> each keyword - see what feels right.
>

Good idea, I'll see with them. Maybe 3 augments all in all ? Except I guess they like to augment :)

Ian :
>> You know, after many (~80) sessions of HeroQuest with the same characters and heavy HP distribution, I begin to see a disturbing trend.<
>>
>
> Trouble is that I suspect that HeroQuest will produce abilties in that range at that point. After that kind of play you should be able to take on the heroes of te day and shape the Fourth Age.
They are doing so! That's the good point. Oh yeah, shaking the tree they are. Now, in my Glorantha, Kethaela is mostly in one part and one of the big players in the 'international' game. The Lunar Empire doesn't have access to the sea because of them. Sheng Seleris is free again because of them. Dormal if back and the Seas are Opened because of them. I may see the day when they create a sort of Kethaelan Commonwealth... My Glorantha Do Vary, because of those Heroes.

> Most people will never play the same characters for that long.
>

Yes. *sigh*. As I said at the beginning, it's the very first time I saw a game lasting that long. We are not into the habit to have life-long games. Kudos to the gameworld and to the rules! HQ is the most resilient game I know. We used it heavily during these 80 sessions and it never let us down. I could never do that until now.

And, as I said to Jane above, I'm now thinking the problem is more the accumulation of many abilities than their level proper. I guess one easy solution is to weld some abilities together, to trim the sheet. Maybe getting from 70+ abilities down to 40-50 may help somewhat.

But I'm a bit astonished you see 80 sessions as that long. I thought your own game was at least as long?

Trotsky:
>> Now, I can see many answers, but really I'd like to know if you have the
>> same problem.
>>
>
> Well, not yet - unsurprisingly, as we've not had more than 8 sessions
> with any given set of characters so far! But, even so, it seems that
> your characters have improved far more rapidly than mine. Looking at my
> own PC, and the points I've spent so far, I'd estimate that after
> another 72 sessions, his best ability will be around 10w2, with another
> 10 abilities or so in the 12w to 5w2 range. So one solution (if your
> players will stomach such a thing) might be to hand out less hero points!
>
> But that's not a lot of help to you now, of course...
>

We never planned to play that long. So, after seeing the level they needed 'just' to go on a Heroquest (or be noticed by the powers-that-be), I gave them many HP. I guess we are where we wanted to be. Only, we aimed for 10w3, and didn't think that it's just a raw level. In game, you always augment and the real level is far higher. You know this strange multiplication you can do on the Lunar heroes? *1.5 to all their abilities when the moon is full and so on? It's the same with augments.

> Well, you wouldn't need to. Your PCs aren't at 1w5, they just get that
> good through augments. Presumably the NPCs are just as capable of using
> augments as the PCs are, so their stats need only be in the 5w3 range.
> The downside would be that the NPCs would need a similarly detailed
> skill list to the PCs - and apparently that's 50+ skills at 1w or
> higher! Perhaps you could give the NPCs some very broad abilities for
> augmenting with, rather than detailing every little ability that they have,
I will try to have them meet at mid-range maybe: more fully statted NPCs and fewer abilities for them. But I don't like to stat NPCs :(

Kevin:
> It's a little late for you, but one piece of advice is to use house
> rules to slow down skill increases after 20W. The two approaches I use
> are to add one to any increase cost per mastery past the first. Another
> is to demand that skills only get increased if it was seriously
> challenged. If you PC's can't find anyone to fight of skill near their
> own, their combat skills aren't going up! This has a secondary benefit
> of making secondary skills and relationships more tempting to raise.
>

We played with the idea of increasing the cost, but it didn't catch. But they idea of having some challenge before augmenting, why not? They may tease me for going all 'simulationist' on them and speak of RuneQuest ;) But I'll propose them that, thanks.

> For all that, after 186 sessions in my game of 5-7 HP given out per
> session, well, my PCs are very probably the most powerful band in Far
> Point in many areas, and one is chief of their clan (and had to actively
> avoid tribal kingship). Their worship on cult holy days can exceed 1W9
> so I've been ruling that the compromise is looking a little tattered
> there.
>

Yeah, I had the same reaction when seeing them reach the same level. I guess I won't laugh anymore to people talking of killing gods in AD&D.

Anyway, 186 sessions, that's a lot! Do you play on a weekly basis? Were the players OK from the beginning for such a long campaign?

  Philippe