> That is the reason for the rebate. Look at it from a different
> direction. I, as King (or whatever), do not expect pay the tax - I
> expect you to maintain the road. If you cannot, or do not want to
> pay the tax (you are a war clan who would rather be raiding your
> neighbours) then you pay taxes for somebody else to fulfil your
> obligations. It is a formula of "Either a weeks work on the bridge
> over the Lorthing River each fire season, or two milk cows" form.
The problem is that the people maintaining the road aren't the same as the ones paying the taxes (and getting a rebate) to the king. The Clans have to maintain the road, but the Tribal king is the one paying the Kingdom taxes and getting the rebate. Now, granted, a *good* king would pass the savings down to his clans, but...
> Military service was handled under the same system - pay for
> somebody else, or turn up yourself.
Scutage has no place among the tribal heortlings. All men are expected to show up for muster - paying someone else to do so is something those Lunar Scum do (and maybe some of those city-folk down there). After all, who are you going to pay? All the other men in the clan are already attending muster, so you can't get them to do it, so you'll pay a foreigner to take your place? And it's not like he'll go unnoticed in the hustle and bustle of muster, since the entire fyrd is related to each other.
> >Granting the taking of tolls was a standard privilege of the
> Medieval Royal courts - This Noble had the right to collect tolls
> for the upkeep of this bridge, that noble had the right to collect
> the Market tolls of this city, etc.
>
> However, Royal Tolls require recognition of the throne's right to
> grant them. I may not care where my tribal taxes go. I will balk
> when the guy stops me on the road and asks me for a clack to use the
> King's Highway. Earlier you were suggesting that the kingdom is a
> weak affiliation of tribes.
Yes I did, but that doesn't stop the king from demanding tolls for folk using "his" roads, and if he can collect them, he can allow others to collect them for him.
> They also fall foul of Orlanth's love of movement and Umath's law
> that "No one can make you do anything". Sartar was surely into
> movement and trade. His roads should encourage movement and trade,
> not hamper it. Tolls restrict movement, they tax free trade - they
> the work of the Evil Emperor.
Um, "No-one can make you do anything" also applies to "no-one can keep you from taking all the goods from the merchant". And there is no problem with movement, just pay for it (or go elsewhere). Allowing a clan to take tolls is a form of standardised and low-level brigandage, but the alternative is for all-out brigandage. Which is worse for free trade?
>Note that Argrath`s men depose Mularik
> because he has the temerity to charge Argrath a toll in Tarsh (much
> stronger notion of kingdom there).
If you've got the force to do it, anything is "legal".
> The Lunars are a strong administration. They do not want you
> extorting their merchants whenever thy pass through your tula
> either. They do want you to pay for the upkeep of their roads. If
> you are a rebellious tribe they may not trust you to fix the roads -
> so they ask for the tax instead. Does this p**s the clans off. You
> bet. They sure as hell do not want to licence armed men extorting
> money from passer's by, there are enough unlicened ones anyway.
There is a big difference between the Old ways and the Lunar ways! And they have enough muscle to be "legal" just about all the time.
> >It's not the King's Peace unless the King is going to show up
> demanding wergild for a molested traveller.
>
> Oops, excuse the poetic licence. By the King's peace, here I simply
> mean suggest that Sartar would have wanted travellers to avoid being
> molested on their journey. Like a market place or moot, a breach of
> that peace carries additional penalties. However, yes, as you still
> have to collect, so it may not help you if you are now 6' under.
> though our kin might colect on yur behalf. This does not apply just
> to killings but fistfights following cart-rage incidents etc.
> However, it might mean that you can kill anyone who you can prove
> attacked you on the road, without paying wergild.
If the king wants to collect payments for crimes related to roads, he'd better show up (or send someone) at each and every moot where such a case comes up. He won't get much waiting for clan chiefs to send him his road-fines.
I think our differences come from different views of how "civilised" Sartar is. Out in the boondocks, I prefer a much less attentive-to-central-government way of life - Out there, the clan chief is king. Your idea seems to be a stronger Central government, at least the level of the Anglo Saxon Heptarchy. I prefer the migration age myself.
Roderick
Powered by hypermail