Re: Three Runes

From: L C <lightcastle_at_zJNu88cWOl2xfSMsPb6Hon8BKmU7GJbKMoIdBbTAv63wYwQ3d__tNe1hiiMu35BM>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:05:02 -0500

Todd Gardiner wrote:
>
>
> I don't look at the definition of Common Magic in this way that I'm
> reading
> here. True, the phrase was used in HQ2, but dropped in Sartar: Kingdom of
> Heroes.
>

Indeed. Common Magic was always loosely defined and seem to cover many things.
>
> To me, Common Magic is:
> A simple spirit charm that someone else gave me.
> A simple spell that someone else taught me.
> An innate magical ability that I was born with.
> [These are generally specific, augment-only abilities, low magic]
>

I remain uncomfortable with the "charm someone gives me" as opposed to "a simple charm someone taught me how to make" though.
>
> Then, after that we come to magic acquired through the Three Worlds
> A more powerful spirit charm that I acquired in the Spirit World (possibly
> with the help of a Shaman).
> A Spell that I learned through following a Saint's path, through knowledge
> shared by members of my caste, or through long instruction at a
> school. All
> require personal connection to the Otherworld of Logic (possibly with the
> help of a leader of the church or a Wizard or Sorcerer).
> Rune Affinities awakened by visiting the Gods Plane (possibly with the
> help of a Priest)
> [These are the awakening of magic powers for lay members. Mostly general,
> broader magic augments. Except spells, of course.]
>

Interesting, I viewed the first batch as the "lay member" level of each world as currently defined. You seem to be going back to the "Common Magic is magic you can get without having to contact the otherworld" view of things.

While I do like the "even lay person level means you've connected to the homeworld" aspect, it does seem there isn't much of an in-game difference between these and the level you have above.
>
>
> Then we start to master magic from the Three Worlds
> Making pacts with spirits for community benefits and personal power. (I
> don't fully understand how Animism works at Shaman levels in HQ2)
> Learning a Grimoire and modifying its spells on the fly to use its magic
> in changing circumstances (i.e. Wizardry).
> Utilizing your Rune affinities through emulating your god to perform magic
> that follows from that god's myths. (Initiate).
> [Full magical abilities.]
>
> Eventually we are great and powerful
> (Some powerful spirit thingie)
>

That's where Shaman goes, yes? The above is Practicioner.
>
> Creating Grimoires (Magus)
> Heroforming and Feats (Devotee)
>
> I think that discussions about using Rune Affinities in non-theist
> cultures
> are "downgrading" the initiate-level magic of the theists to something
> that
> is commonly used by all, and I think that is not how it works.
>

I think that is a very legitimate point. But it IS called "common magic" in HQ2, and drawing a mechanical distinction between your first level and the first lay level seems unclear at this time. (I do think it could be worth exploring, though.)

> Sure, you
> have runes and those *might* augment magic from the otherworlds in the
> right
> circumstances. And they define your personality, since they are the
> building
> blocks of who you are. But I don't think that the magic systems for
> Spirits
> and Spells use them to any significant degree.
>
> The thinking over and Moon Design may not be the same, but the
> discussion on
> here reads to me like people trying to anticipate and predict what the
> other
> two Worlds of magic will be like based on seeing just one. Like the
> story of
> the Three Blind Men and the Elephant, except all of the blind men are
> standing in the same spot.
>

It is exactly that. But Moon Design gave us an overview and then gave us a single culture's specific view of one of those three systems. So those of us who don't want to play Orlanthi have to try and figure out what's going on, don't we? Or if we want to write other cultures? Or figure out how much Orlanthi theism is supposed to represent all theism? Or the general question of "All Wizardry resembles each other/All Thiests resemble each other/All Animists resemble each other" or not, and if so in what ways?

LC