Ghosts are natural to trolls, these are the inhabitants of hell and Subere teaches you how to interact and even use them. Ancestor worship involves summoning ghosts, ghost are therefore undead but not "chaotic" in their natural state.
>
> Secondly, if there are two kinds of zombies (one where the soul
goes to hell and the corpse is reanimated by magic, and one where the
corpse is trapped), shouldn't the second category retain more of its
magic points than the first kind? If it doesn't, where do these magic
points go? (This would seem to make the Chaotic zombie/skeleton very
inefficient to create, unless the chaotic necromancer gets to put the
spirit to one puropse and the body to another?)
The chaotic zombie uses the energy from the victim to make the magic, in the case of Delecti's zombies this is involuntary, this is a power that he has to enslave the souls of enemies slain in the swamp. The soul is partially consumed to make the magic work (all enchantments work on the principle that some power needs to be sacrificed). Gark zombies also work on this principle. Chaotic zombies basically have a power of 1, the rest is used up as a sacrifice or part of the enchantment that enslaves the soul and magically animates the corpse.
The second type of zombie requires power from the enchanter himself, but does not enslave the soul. These zombies/skeletons have 1 magic point.
>
> Thirdly, what about mummies in Glorantha -- which are undead but
retain their INT and some magic points (although the latter do not
regenerate naturally) and presumably therefore also some of their
character? Is there any link between mummies and Chaos? Also isn't
there a Zorak Zoran mummy in Griffin Mountain, though if I remember
correctly there is also no explanation of how it was created
I see mummies as basically a super powerful voluntary zombie, which allows a willing troll to have his body prepared and his soul bound to the corpse, allowing him control after death. The process could be lost to third age ZZ. There is lots of this lost magic from 1st and 2nd age.
>
> Richard Hayes
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 26/1/09, philbert6000 <philbert6000_at_...> wrote:
>
> From: philbert6000 <philbert6000_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Death Rune and creating undead
> To: WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, 26 January, 2009, 11:08 AM
>
> --- In WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com, "valkoharja"
> <rintasaa_at_>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I wonder if the Death Rune gives a magician potential to raise
undead?
> >
> > I know there's the hunger/undeath rune outside the core runes, but
> > I've always been a bit unhappy with that.
> >
> > Basically, are undead a manifestation of chaos? Is the path for
> > creating undead through Death and Chaos runes? Am I missing
something
> > (probably)?
> >
> > -Adept
> >
>
> Seems to me that there are two things that are missing from this
> discussion. Isn't Gark the Calm the god of Zombies? Gark is listed
as a
> chaos god, which would suggest that Zombies are linked to the Chaos
> rune. Zorak Zoran, if this is true, borrows from this power, so we
have
> a contradiction here.
>
> Secondly, Darkness is not associated with Zombies, or rather,
skeletons
> and zombies are not necessarily associated with the darkness rune.
> Ghosts, wraiths and other discorporate spirits are (through
subere),
> and these are also "undead", but animated corpses are not, since
> there
> are no other troll gods that seem to practice zombie making. ZZ is
> unique in this regard, but then again, he is unique in many ways,
he is
> not even really a troll god originally, he is a "adopted" god like
> Elmal was adopted from the sun tribe and Issaries was adopted from
the
> Sea tribe into the Storm tribe.
>
> I think ZZ powers have more to do with his origins as a god that
came
> to hell from the outside. Denying hell of a spirit by fixing it to
a
> corpse seems to me like a thing that a true god of hell wouldnt do.
>
> Basically I think ZZs practice of corpse animation is unnatural
even to
> trolls. After all they eat their dead in funeral rights, a zombie
robs
> from both the community and the god of hell.
>
> I think undead making becomes chaotic when it involves the
annihilation
> of something in the world, any magic that permanently robs the
world of
> energy is chaotic, thus Vampires are inherently chaotic, thanatary
> heads, chrimson bat, etc...
>
> I also think there are two kinds of zombie/skeleton magic: One type
> involves enslaving the soul to the corpse (Gark), and this is
chaotic
> since the soul is denied transit to its god's afterlife, the other
type
> is purely the animation of a corpse with magical power (Sorcery,
ZZ).
> Animating a skeleton does not enslave a soul, the soul is long gone
to
> its god realm and your magic doesnt bring it back into the mundane
> world to power a set of bones.
>
> Basically I think there are 2 kinds of zombies, the chaotic type
that
> Gark makes, and which Delecti is a master practitioner of, and then
> there is the inanimate object zombie, purely a magically powered
> construct that doesnt actually contain a soul, just a permanent
piece
> of the creator's soul. This is the ZZ zombie.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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