Replying to several posts at once ...
Jeff Richard":
> > In any case, Zorak Zoran is primarily a God of Hell (or the
> > Underworld), so it would be incorrect to say that "ZZ powers have
more
> > to do with his origins as a god that came to hell from the
outside." as
> > you did. He didn't. He was always a god of Hell.
>
> Did I say that?
No,philbert6000 did.
> That is not incompatible with saying he is a god of
> Darkness and Hell.
Sure, he is a god of darkness and hell, but he did not come to Hell from the outside, as philbert6000 hypothesised.
philbert6000:
> ZZ is a part of another god, who the trolls call Zorak Zoran. His
> name gives a hint at who that other god is. Have you every asked
> yourself why Zorak Zoran is the god of hate? what is he so angry
> about? What is it in the past of Zorak Zoran that makes him THE god
> of hate? His fire power is from outside of Hell, think about it....
I always saw Zorak Zoran as the primal God of Hell and of Scary Darkness. Sure, there are many gods of Scary Darkness, but Zorak Zoran is the Daddy. Subere is the goddess of Scary Things in the Darkness, Kyger Litor is the Goddess of Scary Trolls but Zorak Zoran is the God of Why the Darkness is Scary.
Sure, trolls only see part of Zorak Zoran and he probably has other masks or aspects that are worshipped by other beings, but I think he is very primal indeed.
So, he makes the Dead walk again because he is a god of Hell and can manifest that power over the dead. That's scary in itself.
Peter Metcalfe:
> Zorak Zoran has many faces in glorantha. IMO in Peloria,
> his two best known faces are Monster Man, Lodril's evil
> shadow and Shargash. The people of those lands would deny
> that those gods are Zorak Zoran and instead claim that trolls
> worship a perverted form of Shargash or Monster Man.
I can't see this, myself. Sure, they are both scary, both have Underworld/Hell powers and both command fire, all traits in common with Zorak Zoran, but that doesn't make them masks of Zorak Zoran, in my opinion. Shargash is a son of Yelm, or at least is counted as one, so that doesn't tie in with being Zorak Zoran. I don't really like the idea of every Scary Underworld Deity is a mask of another. Shargash has Hell Powers because of things he did in the Godtime - he is the Scary Hellfire of the Sky Pantheon (albeit I don't know a lot about Shargash). Monster Man is the manifestation of Lodril's powers over the Underworld - Aether granted Lodril power over the Underworld and one aspect of this is Monster Man. He is also the god of downtrodden peasants and the god of Righteous Rebellion, neither of which fit well with Zorak Zoran.
> I don't believe that Zorak Zoran acquired his fire abilities at the
> Hill of Gold.
> To some extent, they were already part of him. But the Hill of
Gold was
> a convenient mythic battleground in which Zorak Zorani could amplify
> their fiery abilities by beating up a solar deity.
When Argan Argar, Zorak Zoran and Xiola Umbar found Aether before he was born, Zorak Zoran became the first being to be burned. I think that gave him some power over fire that helped him at the Hill of Gold. After all, the fire that burned him was far more primal than Yelmalio's fire.
I am interested in what philbert6000 thinks about Zorak Zoran, though. However, I don't particularly like people dropping clever hints and hoping that people can work things out themselves. I'd much rather be presented with an idea for discussion ...
See Ya
Simon
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