> 2009/2/3 Greg Stafford <glorantha1_at_4SedoiW3agpQg2mlLSj_VJ7KUuieXzg6szG6wgEjg4ouYo8HJvoNyYxzzL8YJvdhw8hozMUNu9UIgdI2t58.yahoo.invalid>:
> > Where "this" = the illumination process?
>
> Er yes, sort of. Specifically "Do Lunar immortals also not go through
> that process?". Sorry for being murky!
I've lost the core of that line of questions. Sorry. I'll be more than happy to readdress it if all the points are gathered together again.
Point to remember:
God, or immortal, or divine being is a very vague and indefinite definition.
The Lunar Gods, those who have achieved immortality, will have gone through the Goddess' process, called sevening and illumination, to gain their state. They were mortals, flawed and incomplete, who have accomplished the intense, difficult process that obtained Lunar immortality.
There is a huge, vast gulf between the gods (or spirits and essences) and mortal beings. The gods are not super people, and they are always subject to interpretation by their worshipers. Orlanth is imagined as a humanoid being, or as a storm, or as the "glue" that holds a clan ring together, or as the father of a family begat upon his wife, who gave birth the way women do.
None of those things are exactly true. They are all true in some ways. So often I see people interpreting them as if they were human, but they are not. The myths are doorways to open people to the truth, not the truth itself. Myths are vehicles, not facts. They are metaphors.
> yes, that is right. The humans can undergo illumination, because they are
> > limited beings who work towards being unlimited, aware of their full
> > potential, rising up through the planes of consciousness towards
> > immortality.
>
> Right! That makes sense to me now.
OK!
> Does this mean that "healed"
> entities that are now Lunar cannot achieve Enlightenment? Or are these
> entities already Enlightened because they are actually a part of
> Sedenya?
Forgive my faulty memory and lack of library. Please remind me of who the healed entities are.
> In theory, I suppose so.
> > Though, in mythic truth, it is not development as much as discovering
> their
> > inner powers.
> > Perhaps a subtle difference, maybe too subtle.
>
> This makes sense to me, especially if the myths are
> necessarily-limited mortal interpretations and explanations for
> otherworldly or beforetimely occurrences. If there are beings of youth
> and initiation then presumably there can beings who mythology is one
> of self-discovery and self-transcendence. Myths tell us that the gods
> can "learn" but they always learn and always have learned; they may
> gain Death in the myths, but they are still always Death.
>
> What I am curious about is whether now, in a post-compromise cosmos,
> divine entities can still discover more inner powers (such as, for
> example, learning they are actually a mask of Sedenya?).
Short answer: No.
"Learning they are actually a mask of Sedenya" is not the same as
discovering a new inner power.
The Compromise locked the deities to be what they were at that moment.
The Red Goddess is a paradox, in many respects, and you can't use her as a guide to what the rules are. She (apparently) "broke" many rules. She is still doing so. She is a mystery, manifesting itself during the lifetime of the people, bearing some along the way, casting off others, devouring some and liberating others. She is Becoming, and She is Becomingness.
--
Greg Stafford
Game Designer
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