On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 1:01 PM, L C <lightcastle_at_QrWHrIaxaP20kQaO8McfEBFITAhG95qIpwbXATxPBLxCKqtLEk8Z92tEv3m7x2IF6G6X9pOYfBNR9kda-Ug.yahoo.invalid> wrote:
> As long as we are discussing the West and doctrine:
>
> I was researching the use of nobility in France for a screenplay and
> came across the interesting fact that noble was an office as much as a
> bloodline in some cases.
> In fact, France has a whole mess of ways you could be noble, and lose
> nobility, etc.
Most medieval societies had something similar, and it would also depend entirely on WHEN we are talking about. But I will only address some Gloranthan issues here.
> So, naturally, I immediately decided this is how it is done in some
> parts of Glorantha.
>
> Now, the Rokari seem very big on "You are born in your caste and you
> stay in your caste". I'm down with that, and think it makes a nice
> evolution from a Seshnelan tradition that was big on heredity to begin
> with and then there was a nice strong reaction to God Learner
> permissiveness.
>
> For me, the question among the Rokari is whether or not they adjust for
> personal ability, or if you are just stuck.
>
Like just about everything in Glorantha (and our world for that matter), there is no one correct answer. There is always the crisis between ideals and practicality.
i.e. - You're a commoner. You have aptitude for magic. Can you learn
> magic, but still be legally a commoner for caste purposes, or are you
> caste-breaking if you learn magic?
Among Rokari, the ideal is that this is a commoner, and does not learn "magic." The fact that this farmer has an aptitude for magic is a weakness, a flaw in the world, somethign to be overcome by this hapless and miserable person who was born already condemned because of his flaws. He bears a close watching to make sure he is on the straigt and narrow.
> Both make for good stories.
> I'm inclined to think the official Rokari position is the latter.
>
> Loskalm also seems to have a fairly rigid interpretation of caste, with
> the whole "move up through the system" approach.
I disagree. Yes, they have a series of occupations that are based upon traditional classes that are based on traditional Brithini castes, but they are just that: ocupations that people can qualify for and climb the ranks entirely according to ability and luck.
These two huge, "monotheistic" churches are polar opposites in their approac to this issue.
> I think I'd put the whole "offices can impart nobility" mixed in with
> some hereditary and some the office is noble, and if you keep it three
> generations you stay noble even if the office is stripped from you, etc.
> complications in Ralios.
Not in my Loskalm. Sorry. The entire issue of nobility is in question in Loskalm. It is a job with serious responsibilities, but not hereditary by any legal mans.
> In fact, I'd be inclined to think that Ralios has a whole messed up mix
> of approaches about this.
>
It is impossible to say any one thing about the peoples of Ralios except that they follow a dazzling or depressing array of options that are considered dangerous by other Malkioni.
> Then again, I suspect Fronela does too, although there I think it is due
> to the fracturing of the Ban. I like the idea of putting the "you can do
> whatever job you need to do, but your legal obligations remain tied to
> your birth caste" somewhere in the stubborn yet practical Fronelan side.
Sure, but this is not a Loskalmi belief.
> Now I know that the Priestly and Sorceror caste are basically considered
> the same thing in most of the descriptions of the West I've seen, which
Yes, though the AB does go some distance to defining priestly roles, a function that did not exist separately from the magicians among the Brithini. The Brithini, see, are permanently linked up with the magical planes and do not need any re-legio practices to be and stay there.
The major difference is that the priests' job is to serve the people, providing a link between them and the magical planes (or, in the case of the Rokari, between the people and the church administration that provides the connection.)
> I think is something of a tragedy as I like the idea that someone with
> the talent to be a sorceror but of the wrong caste can join a
> saintly/priestly order and not be considered to be caste breaking.
Yes, such is possible with some of the Orders, which are created in large part to channel people towards a utilitarian occupation.
--
Greg Stafford
Game Designer
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