> In the Late Golden Age there is no water in or near Genert's Garden. The nearest incursion is the Oslira to the West, beyond Kero Fin.
Not sure what originals Eric worked from.
I have seen a map which shows Oslira/Sshorga in or around Kerofinela and Seolinthur as tributary entering the Garden.
> In the Early Storm Age Flood, the Vingotlings are on an island. A third of Genert's Garden has been flooded, the western part is now a coastline. There are three small island between the Vingotlings and the Garden. The Garden is cut off from the Spike by Aroka.
I was talking specifically about Prax, never mind the lands beyond Zola Fel. The Kerofinelan eastern coastline runs through the lands just east of the Verge or Mt. Quivin. That's where I would look for Prax.
>> There's nothing wrong with the animal nomads being largely unaware of this. Other than the Eiritha Hills, there is nothing this early that ties them to Prax, and this could be before Eiritha was buried, with all the nomads and their gods happily wandering through the Garden.
Note that I make a distinction between the Garden (as a whole) and Prax (which is basically the westernmost corner, the land of Tada and his folk).
> Storm Bull is very much still a part of the Wastelands, "In the
> Golden Age the Storm Bull led his sons down to the fertile lands
> of Prax where they befriended the peoples and wed the goddesses.
> The mother of the land was Ernalda, and she gave the Storm Bull
> her daughter Eiritha as his own wife. This way the two forces
> worked together to create their world." Cults of Prax
> I'd say this is pre-flood as they needed a land bridge to
> migrate to Prax.
Clearly pre-Worcha, of course. Storm Bull may or may not have had to cross the Sshorga River, which may have been manageable at an early stage just like the Zola Fel is today. (Add pictures of thousands of gnus and zebras crossing the Sambesi.)
> Clearly Storm Bull, Eirtha and Eirtha experienced the Flood
> consuming part of the Garden.
Yes. However, the Founders and the early ancestors just kept migrating away from the flooded lands.
> The Defenders Shore could easily be a remnant of the Flood,
> Ernalda & Genert raising the Earth up to protect the Garden.
> I'm sure Storm Bull had a hand fighting back the Waters.
The modern plateau has two breaks - one at the Bandori Valley, and the next at Corflu. A smaller bay at Sog's Ruin may have a ramp, but no real break, still just an incision into the cliff line.
If modern geography was related to the extent of the island of Kerofinela, the entire southern shore of Prax would have been on it.
There is a second event which may have caused the cliffs to come into existence - the invasion of the chaos hordes across the bridge of slime. I'm fairly certain that Storm Bull or some of his sons would have defended against that.
> But these actions are of no interest to their worshippers now other than small stories. Storm Bull had a bigger things to deal with - Chaos and the end of the world. Eiritha was hidden beneath the Earth, and Ernalda went to sleep.
IMO Eiritha hidden below eastern Prax is the first instance that ties nomad Eiritha to a location in Prax. Since it was Tada to do the hiding, it is logical that he would do so in his demesne.
>> Water appears to be something of a taboo topic, other than coming >> from a water hole or oasis.
>> Praxians cannot swim, and I wonder how well their herd beasts can.
> I say the opposite, water is an important topic to all nomads in a harsh, dry environment.
Yes - that's water coming from a water hole or oasis. But vast bodies of water are pretty much undistinguishable from formless gorp to a Praxian.
I'm perfectly aware of all the helpful water myths and the myths and real dangers about seasonal rivers in Prax. A seasonal river, or Zola Fel, is about the biggest body of water a beast rider is going to experience unless he leaves his clan.
> Water may not like the nomads, but they need it. In my game, depending on the version of the story, Waha enslaved the Sounders river, so Zola Fel was displeased. Or he allied with a weak river who could not cope with the Devil's remains.
> So there are two water "camps" - those who side with Waha - the Oasis and other small water spirits, and those who side against Waha - Zola Fel, the serpents, especially the Wicked Writher.
Zola Fel is one of the independent great spirits of Prax, just like Oakfed - easily enraged, difficult to deal with, and possessing powers that dwarf even those of a tribal shaman.
Zola Fel may be an unfriendly, but local Great Spirit. The seas are a terror far beyond that.
> As for swimming - everyone swims naturally, as do animals.
That argument has been made when a Praxian's zero starting skill in swimming was discussed - for Hero Wars, IIRC.
> Praxians are no different, they just don't see any large bodies
> of water to do it in normally.
Any body of water they may encounter would be a hostile spirit environment. It is hard to concentrate on swimming if your spirit gets attacked, too?
> I have the Morokanth as water loving, some swim in the Zola Fel,
> dropping the bottom to feed on rich plant life (like tapirs do).
Neither tapirs nor bison really fit into a serengeti setting like Prax.
>> The Orlanthi have the myth of Worcha and the Trembling Shore >> which helps explaining some of the sawed-off nature of that >> coast. The Beast Nomads might once again claim absenteeism.
> They were on a different island, so not part of that fight.
I'm aware of that. The three bodies of water south of Genertela had attempted to whittle off the Kerofinelan/Kethaelan coasts, but had been beaten back by Hedkoranth and his brothers again and again. Finally they all sacrificed most of their powers to create Worcha, leading to the final assault on the Vingkotling lands at Trembling Shore.
So the water south of the Garden spent all their power to create Worcha, and had practically none left to attack the current shore of the Garden. Hence a much lesser conflict on that shore...
>> For the Tada-shi Eiritha played an entirely different role. >> They were a group of different peoples following the lead of >> Tada, living happy and productive lives amid the Redwood >> savannah of Prax.
Prax, not all of Genert's Garden. I'm not even certain that the Tada-shi were counted as a people (or confederation of peoples) of the Garden.
>> Since their distant and degenerated offspring, the oasis >> people, still practice agriculture at the oases, I would >> assume that they did so already in the Golden Age. Given the >> redwood reliance on forest fires to spread its seeds, I would >> assume that they practiced migratory slash-and-burn agriculture, >> leaving the burnt areas to recultivation by the forest when the >> soil deteriorated after a while. The Eiritha of the Tada-shi >> would have been a bringer of fruit, possibly in seasonal cycles.
> I'm not sure that anyone in Genert's Garden practiced agriculture
> as we know it
Agreed when it comes to Genert's Garden. I beg to differ when it comes to Prax.
I don't expect plowing, but I do expect stick farming.
> or that it was a redwood savannah. The redwoods I suspect
> only formed an area of the garden, not a complete ecosystem.
Again, yes, not the entire garden. (I never said that.) The redwood savannah was the Golden Age ecosystem of Prax.
> I'm not saying that redwood savannah didn't exist, just not
> everywhere.
We're on the same boat...
> Given the potential size of redwoods it would make for a weird garden. Genert's Garden should have a lush mixed feel, with every kind of plant growing in harmony with Genert. Moving at his whim, forming complex every changing gardens. Food is just plucked from where it grows, etc. This is a cool magic garden in the God Time, not a human sculpted place.
All that I can subscribe to. That's where the Beast Riders spent most of their wanderings. In comparison, Tada's lands were a lot more mundane, similar to the neighboring lands of the Vingkotlings, requiring the humans (and other people) to work for their sustenance. Work a lot less than modern oasis folk, but work nonetheless. Tada's people had a culture, not a Garden Eden existence.
> As for why the Tada-Shi became horticulturists around the oasis's,
> I suspect that Waha (Eiritha) gave them that role - they didn't
> fulfil any role in his tribes order, so he asked his mother and
> she said - give them that role for saving me or better words to
> that effect.
The Tada-shi were instrumental in Oakfed consuming the Redwood Forest after Storm Bull's battle with Wakboth. Waha came quite a while later. Calling him a Silver Age hero means that he led his people out of the Greater Darkness well before the Dawn, but after the great chaos battles, and within the confusion of the living and the dead (which Daka Fal sorted out, not Waha).
> There are clearly two types of serpents in Glorantha - Earth
> and Water (I'd also suggest that there are Air and Fire ones
> as well). They are not the same, except for form and have
> different mythologies. Perhaps Genert's Garden had no place
> for Dragons.
Both Genert's Garden and Suvaria are strange animist enclaves in the theist north of the Middle World. They may have displaced an assumed previously continuous dragon population by being forced into the theist lands, possibly like a wedge.
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