Hungry Jack

From: <buserian>
Date: Tue Jan 17 07:50:05 2006

And the Robert and Steve show continues. :)

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:50:58 +1100 Robert McArthur <> writes:
> > On the subject of eliminating units like Hungry Jack, what other
units in
> > the game are worthy of deletion? Whose loss would not really be
> > much? Twin Stars is one, for me, just because they can ONLY show up
as a
> > Random Event (an event for which, I might add, Sartar does not have
> > equivalent). BUT, because of their importance in Prax, I would want
> > kept simply so they could be used in combo games with NG. However, I
> > would definitely make them simply part of the Lunar Battalia (along
> > 3-5 other Lunar spirits, as well as adding 4-6 Sartar spirits and
> > independent spirits, like Chalk Man), and remove them from the Random
> > Events Table.
> Oh boy, that opens things up. Well, I'd certainly change

> - hydra (or make her more useful if kept - I do like her but not very
> useful since she's out of the way and so slow. She does put a hole
> in Ethilrist should be appear though :-))

Not sure what could be done with Hydra. I dislike the extreme randomness of a MgF of -1 to -6, but then, randomness is too appropriate for Chaos for me to suggest changing it. THOUGH I just thought it would be kind of cool to change it a bit, so that if you kill it, you get as many Lesser Hydra units appearing as it had heads, all of them beginning random movement immediately. Yeah, that could be cool.

> - grazelanders need something a little better than just the horse

I would give them a Nomad Gods-style shaman plus a couple of spirits.

> - puppeteers are rarely used/useful, take a lot of counters, yet I
> them for ambience

As do I.

> - delecti/zombies need substantial work. I'd keep them but do
> something(TM) with them

I think they're OK as is. I once suggested a unit that could extend the swamp, but most people disliked the idea.

> - cragspider becomes useful with the addition that the dragon can go
> anywhere once allied, but goes away if she dies

Can't the dragon go anywhere once she is allied? Anyway, I would definitely change things so the Black Dragon is NOT automatic with Cragspider. Makes allying her too powerful, IMO.

> - dwarf is good - almost always the pivotal point as the sides vy for
> the alchemical or at least the canon cult. I'd change one of the
> stone men to something else exotic/exciting

I had always planned to add a strange flying machine.

> - ironhoof needs a shaman counter or something

I don't think so -- I had always planned to add a Foxwoman magician unit, with spirit.

> - the barbarian horde (DP only) are usually a waste of time since
> 3-4 turns before they get towards the battle and, in general, it's
> mostly over by that time. Sometimes they're useful but they do take
> up a lot of counters that could be moved into a DP-NG combination
> pack and replaced with some other Sartar units (or at least let
> deploy into the smaller sartar area from the start!)

I would go for the latter -- in scenarios where they are available, they should be a normal part of the Sartar battalia.

> - thunder delta slingers seem pretty weak to me given their

I was asking for deletions, not changes. :) In fact, is there anything you DID suggest deletion of?

> - how about some juicy chaos for the lunars to ally/control from
> Snakepipe Hollow?

I think that one of the Random Events options should be "Chaos Eruption". You take every single chaotic unit available to you, from every game you have, take out the ones that are location restricted (like Hydra, not like Cwim), pick one or two location-specific ones at random to add back in, then have every single player draw one of the Chaos units from a cup, and all of those Chaos units are placed randomly in Snake-Pipe Hollow. I mean, come on -- having Cwim, Thed, the Hydra, Hungry Jack, and the Crimson Bat all appear in SPH at once, what's not to love? :)
> I'd like to see more rules like independents transfering allegiance
> something annoys them (like in WBRM when capturing capitals), and
> indepedents which make a big difference but only last a short time
> burning the travelling stone).

Yes, I'd like a change of this nature as well. Once an independent is allied, can't you continue to burn diplomacy points to try to bribe them away or ensure no one else does? What I would do would be to make sure this IS the rule, then give certain events or Random Events a point value for appropriate independents. Thus, if you ally with a Chaos entity of any kind, you get -X DPs wih the Exiles, the Beast-men, etc. If a capital city is sacked, that's an automatic -20 DPs; any lesser holding of that nation sacked is -10 DPs; etc.

Each turn, as normal, you have to assess diplomacy points. But, you might lose an ally simply because of some random event that happened, if you haven't continued to spend diplomacy points ensuring they remain your ally. The independents might switch sides (depending on the opponents' DP spending), or they might just be removed from the board, ready to be replaced if they become allied again.


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