Yes, of course, that's what makes them so great. I envisioned a terrifying mass of hippo riders charging towards the helpless caravan. Suddenly, the lead hippo spots a waterhole off to the left, and the entire charge switches direction, the riders shrieking in frustration and pounding on their beasts with the butts of their spears while the hippos wallow in the mire and enjoy themselves. Meanwhile the caravan wanders contentedly off.
>Henk, sadly, because no-one ever reacted on his "nature of the gods"
>epistle.
Well, MY excuse is that I generally (with some notorious
failures) try to steer clear of esoteric discussions of such nature
because I fear that statements by me might be mistaken for Gospel
>From On High, and I don't want to poison the well. Everyone seems
game to debate with me about more mundane matters, such as how long a
Lunar soldiers' spear is, because they know for a fact that I haven't
got a clue, but at least once I saw an interesting discussion partly
nipped in the bud because I put in my oar too early.
The fact is I've had a number of discussions back in the early days of Glorantha with Greg about the nature of the
Sandy:
>No Gloranthan culture has any evidence for an afterlife -- all the
>spirits vanish and are gone.
Pam Carlson
>But Daka Fal can summon ancestor.
They are the only major exception to my blanket statement. Yet the Ancestor Worshipers fear death, and their ancestors are seemingly kept alive only so long as their descendants survive.
>And those irrepressible solar deities seem to have installed a
>revolving door between hell and the surface world.
>Humans can be resurrected, even if it's uncommon.
Resurrection is besides the point -- there is a stage at which it becomes impossible. I'm not arguing that Gloranthans pop out of existence at death, just that some time after death their souls seem to fade away and lose cohesion. Even a Brithini can be resurrected if you get to the corpse within a week.
>Dragonnewts have to die to evolve.
The existence of immortal entities has nothing to do with the possession of an afterlife.
>the biggest advantage that Gloranthans would have over RW people, is
>that Gloranthans can see proof of and >the active participation of
>their deities
I wholly agree. The Big Question for Glorantha [i.e., Is there a god?] is solved for almost everybody. The question of the existence of an afterlife is all I'm raising doubt about. No Gloranthan denies the presence of the spirit world, or of immortal entities, or of the reality of magic. But the fact is they don't _really_ know, any more than do we, that there is a continued existence after death.
Gloranthans need faith, just as a RW theist.
>Hey, Sandy - does anywhere in Glorantha have those picturesque
>limestone karsts like they have in China?
It had better. Not only that we need a place with lots of little volcanic cones like in Turkey.
The karst country may as well be in Kralorela, I suppose. There's lots of mountainous country there.
Alex:
>it's in G:G, book 3.
What is G:G? Gods o' Glorantha? Which book is book 3?
Alex:
>what I meant was the "orthodox" beliefs of the first age. Or at
>least the majority consensus, or whatever actually existed. Those
>which Nick claims the God Learners "reformed"
I do not think there were any orthodox beliefs of the First Age. This entire age was a massive state of flux for Malkionism.
Here is a brief timeline I'd be proud to have debated by Malkioni fans:
At this time, Hrestolism is very simple, without much complex doctrine. It is a theology of liberation, and every preacher probably explains the doctrine in his own way, and has his own concept of Solace in Glory.
3) second century: there's enough Hrestoli now, that they can found their own nations, which they do, attempting to base their society on Hrestol's teachings which, sadly, prove imprecise.
Also, at this time (and in the previous century) there's been tons of pressure from the Basmoli and other pagans. It's hard to believe none of the pagan teachings have seeped into certain kingdoms of Hrestolism.
Anyway, this is the time that the Hrestoli start realizing that they are not all identical. The concept of apostate and heretic emerge, and people start defining their faiths. And also figuring out what to do about the gods. Where do _they_ fit in? Until this time, it is my belief that the vision of Hrestol was believed to liberate you so that you _could_ worship other gods. I.e., Hrestolism was much like the modern Lunar Empire -- a veneer spread over _any_ pre-existing sect.
4) third century: different sects crystallize, with varying views on Tap, for instance. Views on gods start to harden -- maybe you _shouldn't_ worship pagan gods. Tap takes its place as the equivalent of the discussions on the nature of the trinity that early Christianity turmoiled over.
5) fourth century and after -- the gbaji wars screw everything up, destroying many sects, instigating the birth of others. In essence, all the various groups get scrambled up and we're left with an unholy mess. Thank heavens the God Learners are just around the corner. They'll straighten us out.
Incidentally, Greg Fried slew me with a one-liner the other day when he told me: "the difference between an apostate and a heretic is that an apostate knows he is, and a heretic doesn't."
re: my theory that Dara Happa has no internal defense organization
like unto the Native Furthest Corps, but instead funds the Heartlands
Corps.
>I find it unlikely that every man jack recruited in the Heartlands
>is an Elite Troop, and that there're all posted to the frontier.
Why? No man is an elite troop when he's first enlisted. It's a matter of training, not muscle power. And the Lunar Army isn't "elite" in the sense of Spetsnatz, you know. It's just a highly-skilled professional band, like the Roman or Persian army.
And I, for one, assume they're usually stationed in the Heartland, except when there's trouble.
>Even if this makes sense militarily, there's almost certainly a
>social need to get the nobility and their lackeys off their
>collective rears and doing something, if not useful, then at least
>relatively harmless.
Well the nobles _have_ something to do. First off, they can join the Heartland Corps -- this is plenty big, and probably the Dara Happans are forced into the army at a _higher_ rate than most of the surrounding areas. Second, the individual cities are bound to have some sort of watch to defend themselves with.
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