>The Tawari are Brolian? I thought that the Brolians were Theyalan and
>that the Tawari were some sort of Bull-Hsunchen. Did they come from
>Fronela at the time of the First Council for the Battle of Eleven Beasts
>(or whatever it was called)? Do they have anything to do with the "Uroxland"
>label between Brolia and Carmania on some of the maps in the Dara Happan
>Book of Emperors?
I think the Tawari are called Brolian because they lived in Brolia at the time of the Bull Shahs. Urox seems to me to be a Bull Cult (or perhaps many Bull Cults) that has become associated with the Wind. The Broken Council Guidebook does speak of the Great Bull of Prax. Arstor's writeup speaks of the local storm god being Lanatum the Thunderer so I think the appearance of Urox in Brolia was after this. However from Dorastor:LoD, Talastar does know of Urox around the eighth century (which is before the Uroxi invasion of Vangstal in c. 1105 ST).
My guess is that Urox was a cult that was spread by Talor the Warrior Who Laughed His Socks Off in the Chaos Wars (hence its Chaos Fighting Powers) from its homeland in Western Fronela. It was enthusiastically supported by the Trolls who imported it to all their lands under Arkat's Command (ie Dragon Pass). I presume the Praxians then began worshipping it for its anti-Chaos powers when they came into contact with it, thus replacing their native Bull Cult who did not have such things.
>Are there still any in Brolia?
I think yes, but they are all Uroxi now. The Bull Shahs, IMO, were true to the Old Bull (who didn't have storm powers, plenty berserking and heaps and heaps of fertility powers). They were all slaughtered by the Lunars in the Blood Kings War.
David Hall:
>Thought One: To further explore the Light/Dark aspect, I reckon I'd have
>preferred to see two Carmanian war gods/aspects: one light and one dark. Based
>on Humakt's generally good press in terms of honour and truth I'd see him as
>the Light. Maybe the the more bestial guys who accompanied Syranthir would
>embody the Dark aspect?
Which isn't how it worked at the Battle of the Four Arrows of Light aka Checkmate. Reread the Lunar Chronicles. The Gods were manifested in their Dark Aspects in order to fight Chaos, but the Goddess manifested herself as Light and kicked Ass! Clearly Humakt (Death) can take any colour the Magi wants (so long as it's Black or White).
To my mind, the Modern Carmanians are sort of like the Aztecs and see all gods as ultimately mutable with respect to Light/Dark, Truth/Lie and Known/Unknown. The real battle when it comes to light and dark is deciding when it is proper to adopt the Civilized Ways of Light (after Dara Happa) and when it is proper to go the Dark Way to maintain the Balance with the Creator. This manifests itself as several schools of ethics (kinda of like the Malkioni Sects deciding when it is permissable to tap) and is really independant of the type of war god worshipped, IMO. (Although the Tawari Bull Shahs are despised because they did not care for such things and only followed their bestial instincts).
The real difference between Carmanian Humakti and Yanafal Tarnils is that the Humakti try and become more like Humakt in dealing out death. I suppose they could be described as trying to live up to the Ideals of the (Hazar) Caste. A Humakti can of course try to negotiate a truce with enemies, or trade with strangers but he will lack diplomacy and sophistication in doing so. Not because such things are against the ideal of Humakt (he's not a Horal!) but because such things are really the province of the Carmanos Caste whereas he is a Fazzik and trains in the Art of Combat. A Ram of Yanafal Tarnils would be more liberal when it comes to Caste definitions. But a Carmanian Ram could quite happily follow a code which allows the massacre of enemy children whereas a Carmanian Sword could follow a code that prescribes 'Chivalric' behaviour. (BTW Ram for Yanafal Tarnils and Bull Shahs - Are there Ram Folk in Carmania during the time of the Bull Shahs? - Was Yanafal one of them?). All IMO as usual.
>I begin to see now that it is Duke Yanafal and his cult of honourable and
>truthful warriors who have over time subtly influenced many Humakti away from
>worship of Death for Death's sake toward a more enlightened viewpoint. Before
>Duke Yanafal I suspect that the Truth rune, and the concept of death with
>honour, was unknown to Humakti worldwide.
Given that Carmanians are finickly about the Truth, I think that Humakt with Truth came from them. Since this allowed them to be close to Humakt and not be decieved by mere imitations, this allowed them access to stronger Death Magics. This form was avidly adopted among the Orlanthi in the Wars against the EWF.
David Dunham:
>Peter Metcalfe speculates
Zounds! You have found me out!
>>Saggitus is a subcult of Yelm. I think you worship him to get the spell
>>Golden bow. Golden Bow, the God of the Pentans is actually Yu-Kargzant,
>>who is merely another Yelm Cult. The Dara Happans call him Golden Bow
>>because the Rune Lords use the spell Golden Bow so often, I guess. Since
>>the Horse Riders cannot possibly worship Yelm or even worship a righteous
>>subcult of Yelm, ergo they must worship Golden Bow.
>What's the Golden Bow spell?
I really don't know. My guess is that it turns your bow golden so that people call you a Golden Bow. Why else would the Jardan be called Golden Bows by the outsiders? Any one of the spells you described (Flame Bow, Pureshot) would be satisfactory, IMO.
>I'm not sure what you mean by calling Kargzant "another Yelm cult." While
>it's true that both the Dara Happans and the horse nomads worship the sun
>and other celestial objects, Plentonius calls Kargzant a "rebellious
>subject." And Kargzant doesn't even appear on the Gods Wall! That alone
>signifies he's not part of the Yelm pantheon.
Oops. For the purists, that should read "another Sun Cult". I'm really of the opinion, that the Yelm Cult worshipped in Dara Happa is an attempt to follow the Solar Rites established by Murharzarm to worship his father Yelm in the days of old. Any suggestion that you don't need to follow Murharzarm to the exact letter and that any old Solar Cult is just as good is sheer blasphemy.
As for Kargzant not being part of the Yelm Pantheon, I would advise David to look at Darjiin. There, the pious denziens at the Dawn worshipped the Risen Manimat. Can you see Manimat on the Wall? Besides the God Wall is really only to convince the people of Raibanth that they are not living in error. Yuthuppa would use as a guide to religious truth, the planets themselves (and their particular nature).
>I think you're assuming that because the nomads ruled Dara Happa for many
>years they share a culture with the Dara Happans. The Dara Happans give the
>horse lords the title of Emperor because it justifies their realm, and
>makes that period of history a lot less embarassing. There was lots of
>cultural borrowing in both directions, but they're both distinct cultures.
>That both worship the sun and have similar Solar virtues confuses things,
>of course.
Um, even Plentonius is forced to concede that the Horse Nomads had a Dara Happan Origin, namely the city of Nivorah. And many of the 'Jenarong' Emperors were actually great fans of Dara Happan Culture (namely the Chariot Emperors: Jenarong, Gerruskoger, Dardaggus, Kestinendos and Viramakradda). The others were more conservative to their cultural traditions. Nowadays most Horse nomads are conservatives who see the Dara Happan traditions as fit for only plunder. They long for the day in which they can overcome the Curse of Manarlavus that weakened their Goddess in her battles with the Monster Gods so that she became a mere beast.
All hail the Imminent Return of Sheng Seleris!
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