Vadeli: amoral vs immoral

From: ian (i.) gorlick <"ian>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:51:00 -0400


Peter Metcalfe:
It seems that I am not managing to express myself at all clearly these days, because you have somehow got my entire position back to front.

My position is:
The Vadeli do these things BECAUSE the VADELI think they are evil.

This is not the same as :
I think these acts are evil, therefore the Vadeli are evil. Which seems to be your summary of my position.

We have lots of races in Glorantha who perform acts that I regard as evil. I myself like to play a particular Tusk Rider, whose acts of worship are vile beyond description, but he is not evil in his own eyes. The same is true of most of those other races. Either the acts they perform are considered normal, or they are somehow rationalized as permissible in certain cases.

The Brithini and the Mostali are amoral. The Brithini have only their Law, not a moral code. The Mostali have their Specifications and Procedures Documents and no notion of morality. We've got amoral races already. So it doesn't strike me as all that interesting to have the Vadeli be another amoral race.

It strikes me as an interesting variation to have the Vadeli actually be EVIL, in their own eyes, not just outsiders' eyes. I like the thought of a hated and feared race that actually lives up to the propaganda against them. This is novel. It has a twisted aesthetic appeal, and offers different opportunities for adventuring than another amoral race, so MGF favours it.

If you feel you have a more interesting vision, then go ahead and present it. Show how it is logically more consistent, or aesthetically more appealing, or produces higher MGF, or is better based on whatever criteria you think are important. Inspire me!

But please don't quibble about the details of my vision, or try to present a strawman version of mine that you can attack. There has been too much bickering and poor arguing going on lately on this digest. Let's try to raise the tone a bit. I'm willing to discuss but I'm too tired to argue.


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