David Cheng has a couple of quibbles with this.
> 1) GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL SOURCE MATERIAL
I respectfully beg your pardon, but I have never read DP or WBRM,
haven't had much of a possibility of doing it, and doen't see why I
should care one bit about what is said in it - until the new Chaosium
game based on the same stuff comes out (nudge nudge wink wink you
understand).
> Delecti was born in the game _White Bear & Red Moon_, and was later
> rewritten for _Dragon Pass_. In both games his Zombie armies are
> allergic
> to water: they cannot cross rivers except at a ford.
This is completely ridiculous. Why should a guy choose to live in a
swampy place (I don't see the Marsh as one big stagnant pool) and keep
minions which cannot move?
> While the muck of the Marsh doesn't slow down Delecti's minions,
> neither is
> it much to their advantage. I think the whole "Delecti grows a swamp
> around his stronghold" idea was born because of a swamp's inherent
> spookiness, and intimate relationship with the concept of decay.
Note that I didn't state that Delecti really created the swamp (or if I
did, I've changed my mind), I said he hid in it. It was based on racial
memories on opinions of Greg regarding the in.-between state of undead
(dead and alive), ducks (bird and man) and swamps (earth and water).
> (Aha!
> There must be a significant number of Black Elves in most good sized
> marshes!)
No more than there are Red Elves = Goblins, which add to the spookiness.
> 2) I'M A TRADITIONALIST
> Call me closed-minded, but I am too attached to the idea of the ducks
> fighting a valiant battle against the encroachment of the swamp.
And I am too attached to the idea of the swamp as a nice place for Stuff
Which Ducks Like To Eat, which they want to keep that way. It's
unfortunate that there are spookies who also like the swamp, but that's
the stuff you have to accept.
> Erik, I applaud your creativity, but I feel obliged to poke holes in
> the
> Gloranthan logic of your idea, for the sake of my Duck friends.
Hey, I'm a Duck Friend too. I preferred "Delecti doesn't destroy the
Ducks because then he would destroy himself" to "The Evil Ducks are
Really in league with Delecti".
Simon Hibbs:
> Zombie duck storm troops still
> deffinately have a place IMG.
I repeat my argument: For me, creating undeads are a labourius and
costly process, which you don't do unless you get your value for the
money. If you have to choose between waiting until you get a human (or
even better, a great troll) corpse to animate, or animate a duck, you
wait. Especially if you are an undead necromancer. I agree that as
sneak-around types, undead zombie assassins might have a place, though
zombies aren't first-class sneakers.
Now, mind you, if there is some necromantic spell similar to Raise Graveyard from the Elric-supplement The Bronze Grimoire, which is known to Delecti or his minions, a temporary animate mindless bodies thingy, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Come to think of it, the sorcerous Animate (Dead) from Sandy's sorcery was quite similar, though I didn't really like the way it was written up.
Heck, it's such a cool idea that I say there are temporary animation spells, and that Delecti knows'em. And THEN there ARE hordes of undead ducks in the marshes. Satisfied?
Guy:
> I'm sure
> SOMEONE in Glorantha makes sacrifices to the bogs; I just don't know
> why yet.
The Ducks? Note: The sacrifice is to the BOG, not to Delecti. Also note
that not only humans, but animals and Valuable Stuff (gold, silver, good
household goods) was sacrificed this way.
Joerg:
> IMO a good Orlanthi soothsayer should watch the clouds for signs of
> the
> future, not just the stars...
Agreed! The slowly-changing stars, servants of the stuffy Sky Gods,
signify the past more than the future!
> ------------------------------
Erik:
> No matter what Eric says, I am in favor of Duck Vampires -- they are
> just
> too cool. Not real effective, true, and they are even more ostracized
> by
> human vampires than ducks are by humans. But they are still way cool.
No, they are SILLY! Again, I think of a Vampire creating another Vampire
as a major feat, not something undertaken lightly.
Of course, there is the possibility that a Vampire one day sucked on a
Greydogger which had had too much to drink, got drunk, and woke the next
evening with a hangover and the horrible realisation he had created a
Duck Vampire last night ('I did WHAT?!?').
But with what will the poor Duck drink blood? A straw?
> FTR, I like Darkwing Duck, too, and am all in favor of Quack Fu. So
> sue
> me.
Hey, I'm a Darkwing addict. If you had suggest Vampire Potatoes, not
Vampire Ducks, I'd been all in favor. ('Night of the Living Spud' is a
must-see. And the Twin Peaks parody was wonderful. 'The cows are not
what they seem, Darkwing!')
But I'll sue you for Quack Fu (A Howard the Duck in-joke. The issue of HTD called 'The Master of Quack Fu' is another must-read, that I've unfortuneately yet to get my grubby paws on. Sob!).
> >Or the duckish Odayla teach Command Insect spells, and special
> >bughunting tactics, and have some insect spirits/gods as allied
> cults.
>
> This is a cool idea, however, exactly what I would like to see in
> ducks.
I realized myself that such a Command Water-Bug must affect a large
amount of'em, or it becomes silly. A group-effective Draw Bugs is even
better. Then you can use it as an attack.
> After all, what good is Odayla when ducks are hunting for swamp weeds?
Then you turn to the Lady of the Wild, Odayla's mother.
> Finally, do Theyalans, including ducks, distinguish between Chaos and
> Delecti and his undead? I think not -- they recognize Delecti as
> chaotic,
> and the swamp as well.
Delecti, yes. Besides, many of his minions ARE chaotic, and you
encounter them first. The swamp, no. The swamp is a wonderful place, a
new Ganderland, which unfortuneately has undead in it. Curse them!
... Greg has said that at
> the time of the Dragonkill War (i.e., before Delecti), the area where
> the
> Swamp is now was a series of clear lakes.
>
> I also got the impression that part of the reason for the creation of
> the
> Swamp was the damming up of the Creek Stream River.
If you have clear lakes (clear lakes = unfertile lakes, mostly) and dam their outlets, you don't get a swamp, you get one big lake. Trust me, I've seen it happen. So _part_ of the reason, with stressing the 'part'.
> Like become a vampire and turn all his people into zombies, so that
> they
> would no longer qualify as humans, and thus would be safe from the
> dragons.
Delecti is not a vampire, according to must memories of a gregging
concerning this thing. Not in the normal RuneQuest sense of the word. He
reincarnates by stealing bodies. They die when he takes them, but he
animates the remains.
That doesn't stop Delecti from having a cordial relationship with Long Live Death (Vivamort). I'm sure Viv don't give a damn if his worshippers a vampires or not, as long as they wear black and create undead. At least if they have Delecti's power.
Erik
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