On whether the dawn age Fonritan Artmali worshipped Jraktal.
ToTRM#8 quotation snipped.
>May I suggest that this is merely a way of stating that Garangordos and
>his men liberated Fonrit from some group of people who used sorcery, and
>thus were "worshipers" of Jraktal?
I still think the idea of the Dawn Age Fonritans worshipping Jraktal sounds cool. The ideal of a civilization being enslaved to cruel gods has much to recommend it IMO as chrome for Fonritan History. Making them mere sorcerers sounds insipid and boring. BTW what don't you like about idea of the Artmali worshipping Jraktal?
[On whether the Kalabrans were God Learners in that they tortured the gods]
>>The
>>pointer here is 'tortured the gods'. The God Learners either
>>subjugated the gods into their monomyth or exterminated any
>>that did not fit in their dispassionate Logical Wisdom.
>>Torturing involves a different mindset, methinks.
>I supposed it depends a lot on what you think is meant by torturing. For
>example, we know the God Learners used various questioning techniques on
>captured gods. [...] However, I imagine that some God Learners would have
>used possibly painful techniques to interrogate spirits who would not give
>the right answers (i.e., the ones the GLs wanted to hear).
I like to think the Sorcerers of Kalabar tortured the gods for their _power_ and not just to get the 'right answers'. This place isn't 'Information Retrieval' for the Jrusteli Empire - it's a place of incredibly sick people laughing their heads off to the sounds of screaming divinities. Even the God Learners would have been appalled by the tales that emanated from this loathsome place.
Furthermore Kalabar is founded in the days when the God Learners were still traditionally monotheistic and seeking Rightness in Seshnela and Kalabar also survives well after the Doom that befell the God Learners everywhere. Both dates suggest that Kalabar was not God Learner in origin. I won't deny that they learnt or stole anything from the God Learners but so did the EWF and the Elf Empire of Errinoru and those two aren't God Learners.
>I don't think we can completely discount the presence of GLs in Fonrit
>quite so quickly -- Kalabar does seem a possibility to me.
I have not discounted God Learners in Fonrit. As I recall, I have suggested about three states that were formally God Learner.
Having so many, I am highly resistant to _more_ God Learners in Fonrit. IMHO there is a real danger in having God Learners in every nook and cranny of Glorantha whereever inhumanly possible and blaming them for every evil that walks on earth, because in doing so, we flatten out whatever variety that exists in glorantha in favour of what? All we end up is the God Learners are one of the most evil and corrupt and depraved villians that ever walked (nay slithered!) upon glorantha. One is then left to wonder how on earth the God Learners could have slept peacefully at nights without waking up in stark terror shouting 'the horror, the HORROR!' at their vile deeds before running into the bathroom to slash their wrists as to end their wretched existance. Glorantha then becomes as interesting and enjoyable as a six month long sobjectivity thread and discovering that it eternally recurs...
Saying that the Wicked of Kalabar are not God Learners or that the cult of Thanatar was not created by God Learners or that the Elf Empire of Errinoru was not caused by God Learner plant geneticists is IMHO a positive step because it forces one to create anew fresh motives for every faction or power in glorantha. And that is more fun and creates a much more interesting glorantha then blaming everything bad that ever was upon the God Learners.
Now I'm not singling Stephen out for this or even saying that he's guilty of the actual offense which I've grossly exaggerated above. But I just felt like railing against a tendency to take the cheap'n'easy way out in gloranthicana (not just the God Learners, mind you) when one has the opportunity to make it interesting and memoriable.
Ah well. Soapbox rant's over. G'night all.
End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #275
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