It's not the conclusion that matters, it's the dialectic process whcih doesn't come up with one :-)
David D:
>
> Somehow, to get a conclusion I think you need enough Eastern Experts that
> you can line them up in a circle, if you know what I mean.
Well, the sages come in threes in Vithelan myth. Give us a third one and balance will be reached.
Alex:
>
> I hope this doesn't involve killing and eating Nils, who's a little
> on the scrawny side.
I can only add that, apart from being old and stringy and probably having a sour and bitter aftertaste, I promise to come back to haunt anyone who eats me.
Now for the classification of beings.
Peter:
>
>> First a question of terminology: What do you mean by
>> "mystical entity". I read it as "deity who is liberated
>> through mystical means" (Oorduren, Govmeranen, Mairnali).
>
> And what do you classify the Cosmic Dragon as?
Excellent example. Thank you.
Alex:
>
>> But, I don't see a problem in that there are transcendent
>> beings who "got there" from different directions.
>
> No, not at all. I just also think there are different 'degrees'
> of transcendence, and that they're buggeringly hard to compare.
The important distinction I was after was not a quantitative one as in "IG is transcendence index 37, Durapdur is 38", but a qualitative one "both IG and the Vithelan High Gods are transcendent in contrast with deities like Karkal or Issaries who aren't".
But, oddly enough, I think we have sort of formed a circle of two people here as we are sort of saying the same thing here. Then we can have a little quibble about objectivity of course :-)
When it comes to comparing the different entities as we have done, I think it can be done with some reason as long as we deal with the philosophical, impersonal entities. The guys with a personality of some sort are harder.
Me:
>
> Creator - Durapdur
> Invisible God - Atrilith
Peter:
>
> The Invisible God _is_ the Creator.
So, you mean that the IG is the same as entity resulting from the First Action? I assumed IG = Malkion the Law of the Second Action. I can see the arguments for your view though, so I won't argue this. I also realized, just like alex did, that I am one step wrong with the Vithelan analogies, which strengthens Peter's version.
Alex:
>
> Hrrrrrrmmmmmmmm. Personally I'd say Atrilith corresponded to the Creator.
Yes, indeed. My error.
Numerological Vithelan (Western cosmogony cosmogony cosmogony) 0 Durapdur Prime mover 1 Atrilith Creator
However,
> The western equivalent of Vith is Zzabur.
This is going out on thin ice, because the more personal guys are branching out too much. This example works only from the western perspective since according to Vithelan myth, Malkion is Vith's wayward son, and Zzabur thus his grandson. I have no problem with westerners somehow equating Vith and Zzabur, but you wouldn't get enlightened Gloranthan metaphysicists to agree that they are equals, while they just might agree down to 1/Atrilith/Creator.
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