>There have been independent clans for much of the Quivini history, with
>increasing tribal strength, some of them may logically have taken refuge
>in the multi-tribal cities rather than join a single clan.
Which would be a noticable event for most cities. 500-1000 people taking refuge in a city is going to cause immense strain considering that of the Sartarite cities, only Jonstown, Aldachur and Boldhome have populations above 2000. Secondly an unaligned clan entering the grounds of a tribal confederation can be expected to be treated as invaders.
>The urban settlers brought in by Sartar from Heortland won't have joined
>local clans or formed their own but organized into the guilds we found
>mentioned in old sources.
and:
>Definitely not, or Sartar would never have been able to import the
>specialist craftspeople he needed for his vision of his principality.
What urban settlers? I think the Sartarites were sophisticated enough to form guilds by themselves after Sartar had showed them how considering that they formed the cities. Secondly Sartar built Boldhome with the aid of the dwarves and not Heortland architects.
I'm not sure that I agree with the expert opinion that heortlanders were needed to make the cities of sartar great. There's nothing to prevent the Heortlanders from moving into Dragon Pass before Sartar and taking up work for the various tribal kings and chiefs. What Sartar did IMO was to provide a means for the city to grow beyond a certain limit as everything else was already there.
Julian Lord:
>>>At the very least, [the cities] must count for maintenance of the royal
>>>household ...
>> In what way?
>They provide goods only available in cities, such as quality smithing,
>libraries, specialists of various kinds, and any other vast benefit to
>the Prince as discussed by Socrates in Plato's Republic, which otherwise
>might end up in the back yards of the Tribal Kings.
As said before most cities are the preserve of tribal confederations and not the Royal Household. Boldhome is an exception.
>> I doubt that any such clans [belonging to cities] exist. Why on earth
>> would anybody on the City Ring pay attention to them?
I should point out that the Mayor represents the people of the City in the City Ring. But she would not need clan chiefs acting as intermediaries to do her job.
>Because if not, they would riot, and otherwise disrupt the smooth workings
>of Orlanthi city politics?
I'm sorry but in Orlanthi societies, politics is hardly smooth and a riot is barely indistinguishable from a Storm Bull holy day feast IMO. The Orlanthi are rowdy boisterous people. To them, smooth workings of city politics like the Dara Happans have are obviously signs of the Evil Emperor.
>But the Cults exist,
Let's have a look at these cults. Orlanth and Ernalda's cults are the kings and chiefs that we have been discussing. Chalana Arroy can be safely ignored as to participate in Orlanthi politics requires that one be prepared to spill a little blood. Issaries is strong among the shop keepers and the guilds but IMO their cult politics are as unruly as a clan moot and split along clan and tribal lines. Lhankor Mhy can always be controlled by threatening to torch their library if they don't watch out. Humakti are too obsessed with death to be interested in politics while Storm Bullies are too drunk to ever have a coherent political platform. Any other cult is so small that it can easily be driven out of town or simply destroyed leaving the turbulent priest bleeding in a ditch somewhere.
>and the Prince would certainly make sure that the
>Gustbran smiths tithed directly to him, rather than via the Tribes.
Why would the Prince want to do this? His army is levied from the Tribes and he runs the country with Tribal Advice. The Prince isn't some absolutist despot.
>> There's no palace of the Tribal King of Boldhome
>> in Boldhome.
>These are probably the city Mayors we're talking about, you know, as Jane
>pointed out.
There's no mayoral palace either.
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